Fire Engines Photos

Haha! Interesting...I imagine it needs all the help it can get with regard to road-handling! Where have all the Dennis' gone! Just when I thought Staffordshire couldn't get any worse than Scania, they go and buy MANs! Disaster!

Added by David Sapsford on 23 September 2008.

To be fair, i'm not sure that Dennis make 4x4 appliance, but this is awful!

Yet another bog standard truck made into a job which it's not designed for, cheap n cheerful, but not upto the job i guess, only Dennis make a fire engine upto the job, and let's hope Dennis make a comeback soon!

Added by John Johnstone on 24 September 2008.

Id just like to say MAN are a dam site better the Scania more reliable quicker and have better road holding. So Staffordshire are on the up. I do agree Dennis is better but they cost more and fire services can't afford the extra cost if the buy them they'd have to buy less of them

Added by Lewis on 24 September 2008.

Its not only the extra cost of Dennis' but the 'downtime' experienced when a part is required ! just look around any major town or city almost everyone of them has a Volvo / MAN / Mercedes or Scania dealership that is on 24 hour opening/workshop time! that is one of the reasons why brigades are buying/leasing these vehicles, then factor into that the deals that are being offered by the manufacturers to take these 'lesser appliances'especially the new breed of Ariel Rescue Pumps ! funny how the wheel has been reinvented! - remember the Pump Hydraulic Platforms? and its pretty plain why even the most inept brigade transport manager (generally a DO)is signing up to them! That said, I have met some very good/competent transport officers who have a background in transport (and all the qualifications)who do a very good job for their respective brigades. However there will never ever be a vehicle to better a purpose built fire appliance such as Dennis especially the superb Rapier which I had the pleasure of driving operationally for 14 years!!!

Added by Rick Loudon on 24 September 2008.

4x4 not what you are looking for 99.9% of the time why comprise road handling for the occasional jaunt on the green stuff.

Added by Tam on 24 September 2008.

I don't really know how I feel about this appliance's looks. It appears very 'European' to me. Before anyone says 'well it is European', I don't just mean the chassis, but the bodywork, indeed the whole appliance in general.

But I think Staffordshire's new Bulk Fluid Carriers on the MAN TGM chassis look awesome (see picture 11006, picture 11007 & picture 11009). What do you think?

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 24 September 2008.

I was speaking to a guy at Staffordshire F&RS's workshops recently. He told me that (apart from the price) the main reason for opting for Scania and MAN instead of Dennis is their amazing parts availability. He said a Dennis could go off-the-run for weeks while the people in Guildford sourced and delivered a part. Whereas, if a Staffs Scania or MAN goes defective, workshops nip five miles up the road to the dealer's in Newcastle and fetch the part.

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 24 September 2008.

Way too much being read into the parts situation, Dennis is the preferred option in the north east and my understanding is they have been very successful with less downtime than previous scania/volvo etc, as for parts Dennis use propierty parts that you can get from most factors, to me its down to the pretty cab the fact that us British always assume continental is best, its not, ask anyone who has driven and used a sabre etc and let them tell you which is the firefigters preference, they are faster, handle superbly, are far easier to get in and out and roomier too, just the perception of old fashionedness or not trendy enough, i cant understand it, maybe Dennis need to market better and invest some more on cab prettiness and major on practicality and longevity (merseyside are rebodying thiers)anyone fancy trying to get in and out of this fully rigged? we will need working at heights training !

Added by Big Al on 25 October 2008.

Big Al, you might have a point. But there's no getting away from the fact that Scanias are a good 20 grand cheaper than Dennises. And in the current economic climate that is all that really matters to those holding the purse strings.

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 07 November 2008.

Yelp thats a good point, but is £20000 worth one life? Al has made the point elswhere, and, myself included, feel that commercial chassis and running gear have no place on a fire appliance. Firms like Dennis have a wealth of experience of b types built up over many years. The Sabre has proved itself, as have many previous Dennis marks.

Added by John Stott on 07 November 2008.

Just a question here, but does Europe/England have a dedicated fire apparatus manufacturer? It seems all the apparatus come from a truck (lorrie) manufacturer. Here in the States most of the apparatus come from dedicated fire manufacturers who spend the R&D money on fire trucks, not slapping fire bodies on standard truck cabs.

Added by R. Genberg on 07 November 2008.

dennis is British the only British company left


Added by Chris Parton 14 years old on 07 November 2008.

Mr Genberg, because of our procurement over the years and, I would assume, our small industrial base, specialists have a hard time economically. Even Dennis entered non fire engine production a few years ago. The EU also has a glut of manufacturers who have received massive state aid over the years stifling genuine specialist makers.

Added by John Stott on 08 November 2008.

Hey John, the problem is the British disease where anything from germany/sweden etc is perceived as better than anything from this country, we don't in the name of fair trade give the subsidies or preferred contractor status given to continental manufacturers from there own governments, there is no way you would see a volvo fire appliance in germany or a daf in sweden etc, we should be congratulating and supporting the best and not being trendy and going for less practicle cheaper chassis

Added by Big Al on 08 November 2008.

How many years do the British fire brigades get out of their units on average? The cities in US get 7-12 yrs use, the vollies get between 15-25 depending on how much use they get. Even then, these trucks usually get refurnished and passed on to smaller departments for additional use.

Added by R. Genberg on 09 November 2008.

Al, you seem as cynical as me! Take comfort in the fact that we have produced some world class machines in the past, Sabres were the last b type worthy of the mantle, all I do now is get nostalgic and e mail every stupid fleet manager that buys Carp!

Added by John Stott on 09 November 2008.

It all depends on usage Mr Genberg and quality of make etc. Some older Bedford / HCB Angus and Dennis machines put in healthy periods of over 15 years on fulltime stations and then went to retained to give another ten or more. The national fleet of Home Office reserves has now been sold after over forty years in service. The present trend for commercial based vehicles does not seem, in my opinion, to offer anywhere near the longevity of previous marks.

Added by John Stott on 09 November 2008.

volvo in our brigade manage a meagre 11-12 years although we lost some due to corrosion problems at 9 years, (body to chassis reaction)scania look to be about the same or slightly less as both suffer from parts problems after about ten years, as for dennis it was 13-16 years but that's history in this brigade but i notice merseyside are reboding some sabres, says it all really

Added by Big Al on 09 November 2008.

Hi, The MAN 4x4 does indeed drive a little differently than the Scania or the Dennis; these in Staffs have automated manual clutch arrangement due to the 4WD capability. It has taken some getting used to, and we are still assessing its actual 4x4 capability.

Added by Gesman on 28 March 2009.

Gesman, I take it the new M.A.N. at Cannock is on-the-run as a water tender. Can you tell me which Scania it has replaced -- DX54 MWJ or DX55 AAN? And do you know where that Scania is destined to end up.

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 03 April 2009.

Hi Yelp Bullhorn.
The M.A.N is on the run as the water rescue tender ( remember both appliances at cannock carry webber ). It replaced DX54 MWJ. I thought at one time DX54 MWJ was going to training school; for a while it was going around as a reserve appliance. I'm not sure where it is destined but I think its currently off run, I had a feeling it was going to the north of the county, possibly Longton?

Added by Gesman on 03 April 2009.

No matter if this is a 4x2 or a 4x4 , this is a converted hgv not a true fire appliance simple as that !

Added by John Johnstone on 04 April 2009.

Thanks for that information, Gesman. I didn't realise that. But is carrying of webber rescue gear on the second pump unique to Cannock or does it exist at other Staffs multi-pump stations? Ones near to the motorway perhaps?

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 06 April 2009.

YB, don't know if its unique to Cannock, but it has been the case ever since we got DX54 MWJ. If there is anything else I can help with let me know.

Added by Gesman on 07 April 2009.

Please add your comments about this picture using the form below.

Comments

Your Name

Your email address - this will be shown on the page and will allow the system to notify you of further comments added to this picture.