Fire Engines Photos

A lovely West Sussex F49..no it wasn't yellow, delivered in red as were all the K registration Dennis appliances. Yes it was new to Shoreham by Sea, but that looks like Chichester drill yard to me, it went to Chichester as 2nd (retained crewed) WTL in 1983 I believe when Dennis RS KCR 586Y was delivered to Shoreham, just as I started senior School in Lancing, so I don't remember seeing much of this F49. It finished its days as a reserve, being withdrawn in 1988 I think.

Added by Jon Godden on 15 October 2021.

This appliance was caught in field fire whilst at Shoreham, and was re-cabbed by Dennis's, later on it got damaged in rtc whilst still at Shoreham, it then moved to much safer home at Chichester, where it was lovingly cherished by myself and collegues,
by far the fastest machine we ever had, lots of room in rear cab, it did not get better than this "Dennis/Rolls".Yes this photo is in Chichester Yard by the fuel issue pump, which it needed often.

Added by M.west on 17 October 2021.

Jon the sequence of moves here was 13/4/83 KCR 586Y Dennis RS133 WRL to Shoreham WRL(1), TCR 351T Dennis R133 WRL(1) to WRL(2), WPO 477K WRL(2) to Chichester WRL(2) replace MPO 54J Dennis F44, so WPO 477K moved to a much busy life, there was obviously a pecking order in hand down moves and we where at that time very near the bottom, although a much busier outfit than Shoreham, WPO 477K did not turn up at Chichester till July 1983, the first shout I went out in was on 3/7/83 0627am Graylingwell Hospital, AFA Fault.

Added by M.west on 18 October 2021.

I wonder how many of your runs were AFAs which turned out to be false alarms? It seems that in many countries including the UK more than half of all calls in large towns and cities are AFAs which turn out to be 98% or more false alarms. Here in the US practice varies from city to city, but here in Chicago the response is cut back from three engines. Two aerials and rescue to one engine and one ladder if an AFA cannot be confirmed as an actual fire. Greater Manchester years ago changed response to one pump which had to proceed without blue lights at normal traffic speeds.

In Germany, a command van or small alarm truck with in each case a two person crew are normally dispatched to unconfirmed AFAs, and many French urban forces send a similarly equipped and staffed utility van. But it does seem that some fire services in other countries still send a boatload of units and crew members to AFAs, which is a serious waste of time and a dilution of resources available for real incidents.

Added by Rob Johnson on 18 October 2021.

Thanks Martin, I knew you would have all the details..I am assuming WPO 477K went to reserve when B418 UBP arrived at Chichester in 1984 and XOT 159V became the 2nd WRL? Jon

Added by Jon Godden on 18 October 2021.

Comment removed at request of Commentor

Correct

Added by M.west on 20 October 2021.

Rob, i have a quick look for a period in 1983:-41 Fires, 6 Emergency Special Service, 24 AFA Faults, 17 False Alarm Good Intent, 3 Malicious, 7 Chimney Fires, 2 Stand by at other stations.

Added by M.west on 20 October 2021.

Totally agree with Andy Fish, Hospitals in my area which attracted a PDA of 3 X Pumps, now only get one, with often only a crew of four, you have got your work cut out if there is a job, these are often huge buildings spread of a large area, another instance AFA at Old Peoples Home, 1 X RDS Pump, when it got there a Persons Reported Job.

Added by M.west on 20 October 2021.

London Fire Brigade's recent Annual Report identified over 50% of all calls as false alarms - and some European cities are just as bad. This problem is very clearly linked to the prevalence of automatic alarms, as the false alarm rates in the US, UK, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia are far higher than in southern European countries like Italy, Greece and Spain where automatic alarm systems are much less common. As I mentioned, different countries and different fire services within each country seem to be addressing the problem in different ways - illustrating that there is no "right" answer to what can be a major problem in many places...

Added by Rob Johnson on 20 October 2021.

Hi Andy, on the AFA issue there’s an ongoing consultation in Scotland just now.

Added by Peter McCombie on 20 October 2021.

Up here in Scotland due to COVID it's 1 pump instead of 2 during the day. At night 2 pumps (If people sleeping). The SF&RS did have a consultation on their website(Now Closed).
Stay the same
2 pumps
1 pump (Or certain time of day)
Or don't turn up until someone phones in confirming.
They want to reduce the No of UFAS's.

Added by Grant Melville on 20 October 2021.

Some German cities track AFA alarms to each address and dispatchers use these data on their computer system to determine the level of response. If the AFA is the first recorded alarm, a full response assignment is dispatched. If the same premises had previous (false) AFAs, then the ELW or KLF is sent with two crew members to investigate, unless a call to the location can confirm a fire or other emergency. Places like hotels and hospitals which have a potentially high life risk threat get a full assignment in all circumstances. These are relatively rare alarms, but are taken seriously with two platoons responding (four pumps, two aerials, two command cars, two ambulances, around 36 crew members).

Owners of premises which have repeated false AFA alarms are fined, with increasing fines as more cumulative false alarms are received - until the fine can reach as high as 10,000 Euros per incident! Not saying this is an ideal solution, but it does seem to have some advantages. The rate at which AFAs actually involve a real fire situation is reported by some fire authorities, and seems to be in a range of zero to 3%, with San Francisco being the highest. Fortunately, these actual fires seem to be quite minor, and often the alarm has been triggered by water flow in a sprinkler system, so the fire is already contained.

Added by Rob Johnson on 21 October 2021.

Forgot to say it's still 2 pumps for a hospital, say like Ninewells in Dundee where I stay.

Added by Grant Melville on 21 October 2021.

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