Fire Engines Photos

I am glad - but a bit surprised - that they are still using it. A lot of fire services in many different countries have sold, exported or placed their Multistars on reserve status. They are very close to the total permitted 18 ton GVW, and suffer badly from having a very high center of gravity due to the height and weight of the booms - all of which makes them extremely tricky to drive safely. Originally introduced to offer a combination aerial and rescue water tender to German volunteer fire companies as a cost-saving measure, production has been very limited. Almost all were exported, as German volunteer fire services preferred to continue to operate separate aerials and pumps, often buying used and/or reconditioned aerials from full-time brigades. As for its 20 mile response run, it is no secret that UK fire brigades have cut back on aerials and changed their pre-planning to remove them from many addresses where they were previously required on the first due attendance. It still remains the practice in most European countries to dispatch an aerial to all structure fires, especially addresses where there are three storey structures involved - or like here, adjacent to the address of the incident.

Added by Rob Johnson on 24 June 2020.

Stocktons Carp fell over. Both Clevelands CARPs were 2nd hand after their previous owners got the message.

Added by Neal Glover on 24 June 2020.

Neal: Do you know if it fell over while being driven, or did it just lose its balance when the booms were being used?

Added by Rob Johnson on 25 June 2020.

Rob I got the impresion it was being driven but I could be wrong.

Added by Neal Glover on 26 June 2020.

It turned on its side while going round a roundabout on a call out. Google 'The Sun Fire Engine Overturns ' and there are photos and a video.

Added by CraigW on 26 June 2020.

Craig:

Not surprising news! They were - and still are -virtually impossible to drive round roundabouts quickly. As Germany has relatively few roundabouts, this may have been an aspect of their handling which Magirus did not think about...

It makes me wonder whether a 22 to 24 meter CARP would possibly be even more useful, and a good deal safer. The old 55 foot PHP's were pretty useless, not least because of their limited reach, but a CARP that is midway between a 17 meter PHP and a 32 meter CARP might be light enough to be able to handle reasonably well, and have booms which are of practical value too.

Just a thought....

Added by Rob Johnson on 27 June 2020.

'Excessive speed with due regard to the conditions ' maybe

Added by CraigW on 28 June 2020.

The Scottish Multistars were apparently never put into service, because the service could not get them to weigh less than 18.5 tons with a full load of equipment, water and crew members!

If you are used to driving a Scania water tender "on the bell", it is perhaps forgivable to think you can chuck a Scania Multistar around the same way, and get away with it!

Added by Rob Johnson on 28 June 2020.

This retained manned CARP seems to attend every major fire in the whole of Cleveland. Frequently been seen at fires in Hartlepool 32 miles away from Saltburn! Quite a trek in a machine not known for speed. Assume other aerials are off the run.

Added by CraigW on 15 January 2021.

Craig

According to a posting on this site, this one has also been damaged in a traffic accident, or is it still on the run?

Added by Rob Johnson on 15 January 2021.

Rob
Saltburn's CARP VX59HGJ still very much with us and busy. Stockton had an identical CARP KX59EWF which was written off in a rollover. I have mixed these registrations up in a much earlier post. I am going home to beat myself with a wet copy of 'Fire Cover' !

Added by CraigW on 16 January 2021.

Whatever it takes....

Added by Rob Johnson on 16 January 2021.

Coincidentally when I looked out of the window after writing last post Saltburns CARP went by! Heading back towards Saltburn from Redcar at 8.45am on Saturday so another call I presume.

Added by on 18 January 2021.

Looks like it may eventually end up dying of old age after all..

Added by Rob Johnson on 18 January 2021.

It seems that a 32 mile run for a retained aerial like this implies a response time of something like 40 minutes or even more. This seems excessive by any standards. In the US, Germany and quite a few other countries which mandate or provide guidelines for structure fire response by public fire services, a full attendance at a structure fire requiring an aerial is between ten and twelve minutes, even if the aerial is the last unit to arrive on scene. The presence of an aerial is required at pretty much all structure fires in many countries, and at all structures at or over three floors almost everywhere in North America and Europe.

Hartlepool, with 90, 000 population, would almost certainly have had its own aerial back when I lived in England, and most US, German or French towns of this size have at least one and very often two.

Added by Rob Johnson on 24 January 2021.

Strangely enough Hartlepool used to run the CARPs distant forebear a Bedford TK PHP. There must be a story behind Cleveland's current aerial situation which some of the old regular contributors probably know.

see



Added by CraigW on 25 January 2021.

The PHP concept was very short lived, and the TK you mention was bought second hand - which was also the case for the Multistars.
It seems Cleveland is under even greater financial pressure than many other UK fire services, with a paucity of equipment and undue reliance on second hand kit which - quite frankly - includes vehicles which other brigades have found wanting. A lot of towns around 100,000 population ran a PHP in the days when they were fashionable, but they almost always had a TTL, TLP or HP too. I think that - rightly or wrongly - the 55 foot PHP was seen to be the replacement for a PE or WTE rather than an alternative to a TTL.

Added by Rob Johnson on 25 January 2021.

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