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Fire Engine Photos
1937 TLP Leyland TLM/Metz 101ft Turntable Ladder.
In 1932,the London Fire Brigade introduced the United Kingdom to the first all-steel TL made by the German fire appliance manufacturer Magirus. Over the next seven years a total of 16 new all-steel TL's were introduced to London,with most of these being of Magirus make.In 1936 though,the LFB ordered two machines from Leyland Motors Ltd who had a franchise to supply the German made Metz TL's on Leyland chassis with the first all-steel Metz ladder being delivered to Coventry in 1933.
London's two new Leyland TL's were actually breaking new grounds in that they were not just a new make,but were fitted with fire pumps.The order was placed with Leyland Motors on the 22nd May 1936 and each machine with extras would cost £3,240 pounds.The machines were made and ready for delivery by the end of March 1937.Registered DGJ309 and DGJ310,they were numbered 21TLP and 22TLP in the London fleet and DGJ309 was officially handed over on the 5th April,1937.It went on the run at Shaftsbury Avenue fire station(better known as Soho)where she remained in service until March of 1963.The sister machine,DGJ310 went to the brand new Lambeth Headquarters on the Embankment but in 1938 was moved to Whitechapel fire station where she remained for the rest of her service.
Due to the fact the LCC's(London County Council)LFB was such a large organisation all the fire stations had a code number,Soho was known as 72 station.
DGJ309,the 1937 Leyland TLM/Metz 101ft TLP having gone out of service in 1963 was not re-discovered until 1980.It appears she was sold to a dealer who liked her and then stored her in a brick barn in Bedfordshire,England.Mike Hebard over the next few months negotiated the purchase,and with some of his friends coaxed her back into life.Then followed a full restoration programme lasting around four years,the rest is history.
I photographed this machine back in 1991 at the Southampton Fire Engine and Vintage Vehicle Rally held at the Royal Victoria Country Park at Netley,Southampton.The machine is today still in presevation and could still tell afew stories from her busy past from around the West End streets of Soho in London.
It was only right to give a little history on this machine while sending the picture in,the story though just never ends.I have to because there will not be any room for any comments.
In 1932,the London Fire Brigade introduced the United Kingdom to the first all-steel TL made by the German fire appliance manufacturer Magirus. Over the next seven years a total of 16 new all-steel TL's were introduced to London,with most of these being of Magirus make.In 1936 though,the LFB ordered two machines from Leyland Motors Ltd who had a franchise to supply the German made Metz TL's on Leyland chassis with the first all-steel Metz ladder being delivered to Coventry in 1933.
London's two new Leyland TL's were actually breaking new grounds in that they were not just a new make,but were fitted with fire pumps.The order was placed with Leyland Motors on the 22nd May 1936 and each machine with extras would cost £3,240 pounds.The machines were made and ready for delivery by the end of March 1937.Registered DGJ309 and DGJ310,they were numbered 21TLP and 22TLP in the London fleet and DGJ309 was officially handed over on the 5th April,1937.It went on the run at Shaftsbury Avenue fire station(better known as Soho)where she remained in service until March of 1963.The sister machine,DGJ310 went to the brand new Lambeth Headquarters on the Embankment but in 1938 was moved to Whitechapel fire station where she remained for the rest of her service.
Due to the fact the LCC's(London County Council)LFB was such a large organisation all the fire stations had a code number,Soho was known as 72 station.
DGJ309,the 1937 Leyland TLM/Metz 101ft TLP having gone out of service in 1963 was not re-discovered until 1980.It appears she was sold to a dealer who liked her and then stored her in a brick barn in Bedfordshire,England.Mike Hebard over the next few months negotiated the purchase,and with some of his friends coaxed her back into life.Then followed a full restoration programme lasting around four years,the rest is history.
I photographed this machine back in 1991 at the Southampton Fire Engine and Vintage Vehicle Rally held at the Royal Victoria Country Park at Netley,Southampton.The machine is today still in presevation and could still tell afew stories from her busy past from around the West End streets of Soho in London.
It was only right to give a little history on this machine while sending the picture in,the story though just never ends.I have to because there will not be any room for any comments.
Oxford diecast have just brought out a model of
DGJ 310 in 1/72 scale
Added by Bob on 08 November 2009.
DGJ 310 in 1/72 scale
Added by Bob on 08 November 2009.
Pete, that was a great history, for this beauty.
Keep it up: I really hate to see a pic of a fine rig, with only a manufacturer's name appended; and then, have to piece its story together, from the various fragments, in "Comments".
So, London went into The Blitz, with all 3 "M" Turnatable Ladders (Aerials)...Magirus, Metz and Merryweather.
Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B
Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 09 November 2009.
Keep it up: I really hate to see a pic of a fine rig, with only a manufacturer's name appended; and then, have to piece its story together, from the various fragments, in "Comments".
So, London went into The Blitz, with all 3 "M" Turnatable Ladders (Aerials)...Magirus, Metz and Merryweather.
Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B
Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 09 November 2009.
I have just finished re-modeling the 1/76th scale model just released by Oxford Diecast of the Leyland/Metz Turntable Ladder of the London Fire Brigade and its now shown here on the 'Transport Models' site.
Added by Pete Matten on 15 January 2010.
Added by Pete Matten on 15 January 2010.
Hi Pete, thanks for this. This has sparked some good memories for me. My Dad was in the London Fire Brigade from the outbreak of war and was stationed at LFB Headquarters in Lambeth ('D61') until retirement in 1962 having spent his last 5 years on the fireboat. However previous to that he was driver and TL operator of a Leyland Metz. Presumably his appliance postdates the original DGJ310 which was moved to Soho. There were frequent displays for the public held on the big parade ground at Lambeth (utilising the scary 100' escape tower!) which I was fortunate to attend as a small boy, and what seemed a huge selection of appliances were always present, including Metz Magirus and Merryweather TLs, Dennis pumps and Escapes, emergency tender, control unit and novelty motor bike combination which drove itself - there was a guy hidden in the sidecar! Very sharp memories
Cheers, Graham
Added by Graham Thompson on 28 November 2010.
Cheers, Graham
Added by Graham Thompson on 28 November 2010.
Hi Graham, thanks for your comments and story.Yes in 1939 DGJ309 was replaced with another Leyland Metz TLP with the reg-FGU691(TL26/MZ-48).This 1939 Leyland/Metz 101ft TL remained in service at Lambeth until 1964.
Added by Pete Matten on 28 November 2010.
Added by Pete Matten on 28 November 2010.
PETE,
Thanks for posting this along with your fine backgrond material. I've laearned from books that London received Leylands with diesel engines
in`the late 1930s, sssss so did all Lylands from that time on come with them, or did they retain the gas, petrol, engines? Any details in print concerning the diesels used? Did Dennis have diesels availsble this early. Also, has the new Ward La France( First Gear-1:34) been released over your way yet Thanks.
Bob Graham
Richmond, Calif.
Richmond,
Added by Bob Graham on 02 December 2010.
Thanks for posting this along with your fine backgrond material. I've laearned from books that London received Leylands with diesel engines
in`the late 1930s, sssss so did all Lylands from that time on come with them, or did they retain the gas, petrol, engines? Any details in print concerning the diesels used? Did Dennis have diesels availsble this early. Also, has the new Ward La France( First Gear-1:34) been released over your way yet Thanks.
Bob Graham
Richmond, Calif.
Richmond,
Added by Bob Graham on 02 December 2010.
Bob, although Dennis had their own diesel engines in he late 30's which were used in lorries and buses, none were used in Dennis fire engines due to lack of performance when compared with petrol units. The first diesels appered in the early sixties with the F100+ series of machines. The first diesel engines used were from AEC and were the 6 cylinder AVU series.
Added by Barry. on 03 December 2010.
Added by Barry. on 03 December 2010.
Gentlemen, just to clarify the comments on the postings and movements of DGJ309 & DGJ310.
DGJ309 was ALWAYS at Soho, the sister vehicle DGJ310 was initially posted to HQ Station in 1937 (Lambeth) and moved to Whitechapel in 1938 when Lambeth received a new Dennis TL. To my knowledge DGJ310 was NEVER posted to Soho. All 4 LCC Leyland Metz TLs were withdrawn in 1964 on the delivery of new AEC Merryweather TLs. All 4 Leyland Metz TLs were still front line appliance and never served as spare vehicles.
I own DGJ309 and have done for the last 30 years. It is entered for this years HCVS London - Brighton run on 1st May.
A comment above was made about diesel engine Leylands in London. Only ONE Leyland Pumping appliance was supplied with a diesel, this was for trial purposes. Diesel engines appeared in 1950 in AEC chassis vehicles.
Hope this all helps.
Added by Mike Hebard on 30 January 2011.
DGJ309 was ALWAYS at Soho, the sister vehicle DGJ310 was initially posted to HQ Station in 1937 (Lambeth) and moved to Whitechapel in 1938 when Lambeth received a new Dennis TL. To my knowledge DGJ310 was NEVER posted to Soho. All 4 LCC Leyland Metz TLs were withdrawn in 1964 on the delivery of new AEC Merryweather TLs. All 4 Leyland Metz TLs were still front line appliance and never served as spare vehicles.
I own DGJ309 and have done for the last 30 years. It is entered for this years HCVS London - Brighton run on 1st May.
A comment above was made about diesel engine Leylands in London. Only ONE Leyland Pumping appliance was supplied with a diesel, this was for trial purposes. Diesel engines appeared in 1950 in AEC chassis vehicles.
Hope this all helps.
Added by Mike Hebard on 30 January 2011.
I am glad to hear that you still own DGJ309! I actually have a bit of a different question though. I have been doing some LFB research recently. I am really interested in the full-bodied, enclosed (or even just enclosed cab) early fire trucks. I have done lots of research on these types of truck here in the US, but I recently became interested in the British appliances. London's "limousine" bodied appliances have become my favorite kind. I am only focusing on the LFB for right now.
So, after going through the LFB website picture archives, scanning the Internet, and reading a whole lot on here, my first question is: Is there a person with great authority who I could contact that would be an LFB know-it-all? Are there any book or websites that I should know about for my research? I have noticed that many of the appliances I speak of were built on bus chassis. For instance, here is a list of some license numbers I have compiled, can anyone fill in gaps and/or add to it? Corrections are, as always, very much welcome. LFB ONLY
BYV317 1936 Dennis Big Six Breakdown Lorry Lambeth BL11
BYV318 1936 Dennis Ace Canteen Van Lambeth
DGJ302 Dennis (Big Six?) Limousine Pump
DGJ304 Dennis (Big Six?) Limousine Pump
DGJ308 1936 Dennis Lancet Hose Layer Lambeth
DGJ309 and DGJ 310, I think we all know what these are
BLC554 Limousine Pump
FMF957 Limousine Pump
LMC69 Dennis Light Four Pump Escape
LMC70 Dennis Light Four Pump
FQU694 Albion Emergency Tender Lambeth
DLY59 Transport Coach NFS Lambeth
JHT854 Control Unit Lambeth
CLX544 Control Unit Lambeth
As many of you LFB fans may realize, I have a long way to go. I guess what I am really looking for is a roster of all LFB control units, canteen vans, breakdown lorries, transport coaches, emergency tenders, and enclosed, full-bodied, limousine pumps and pump escapes. I would like to eventually have this in the following order: License Number, Year Built, Make of Chassis/Cab/Body, Model(ie, Big Six), Type(ie, Emergency Tender), FIRST station it served, fleet number. I guess that will be a big list! Again, any help, even if only with one truck, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!
Added by Jeffrey Smoker on 13 February 2011.
So, after going through the LFB website picture archives, scanning the Internet, and reading a whole lot on here, my first question is: Is there a person with great authority who I could contact that would be an LFB know-it-all? Are there any book or websites that I should know about for my research? I have noticed that many of the appliances I speak of were built on bus chassis. For instance, here is a list of some license numbers I have compiled, can anyone fill in gaps and/or add to it? Corrections are, as always, very much welcome. LFB ONLY
BYV317 1936 Dennis Big Six Breakdown Lorry Lambeth BL11
BYV318 1936 Dennis Ace Canteen Van Lambeth
DGJ302 Dennis (Big Six?) Limousine Pump
DGJ304 Dennis (Big Six?) Limousine Pump
DGJ308 1936 Dennis Lancet Hose Layer Lambeth
DGJ309 and DGJ 310, I think we all know what these are
BLC554 Limousine Pump
FMF957 Limousine Pump
LMC69 Dennis Light Four Pump Escape
LMC70 Dennis Light Four Pump
FQU694 Albion Emergency Tender Lambeth
DLY59 Transport Coach NFS Lambeth
JHT854 Control Unit Lambeth
CLX544 Control Unit Lambeth
As many of you LFB fans may realize, I have a long way to go. I guess what I am really looking for is a roster of all LFB control units, canteen vans, breakdown lorries, transport coaches, emergency tenders, and enclosed, full-bodied, limousine pumps and pump escapes. I would like to eventually have this in the following order: License Number, Year Built, Make of Chassis/Cab/Body, Model(ie, Big Six), Type(ie, Emergency Tender), FIRST station it served, fleet number. I guess that will be a big list! Again, any help, even if only with one truck, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!
Added by Jeffrey Smoker on 13 February 2011.
Hello Jeffrey
Sorry for the long delay in replying to your queries of 13th February.
DLY59 was only in London during WWII, never LFB.
FMF957, LMC69, LMC70 were NOT LFB vehicles, they were only on a NFS fleet list for 5 area in 1948.
FMF957 was new to the Borough of Ealing in 1937 and was a Dennis again NFS only.
The control units you mention were both second-hand buses and converted by LFB in the 1950s.
LMC69 & 70 were new to the Borough of Wembley in 1939 again NFS only.
The Albion ET should be FGU694 of 1939.
I do have lists of pre-war LFB vehicles but it would not be feasible to list here, if you can let me have contact details perhaps I can help.
Best wishes
Mike
Added by Mike Hebard on 28 August 2011.
Sorry for the long delay in replying to your queries of 13th February.
DLY59 was only in London during WWII, never LFB.
FMF957, LMC69, LMC70 were NOT LFB vehicles, they were only on a NFS fleet list for 5 area in 1948.
FMF957 was new to the Borough of Ealing in 1937 and was a Dennis again NFS only.
The control units you mention were both second-hand buses and converted by LFB in the 1950s.
LMC69 & 70 were new to the Borough of Wembley in 1939 again NFS only.
The Albion ET should be FGU694 of 1939.
I do have lists of pre-war LFB vehicles but it would not be feasible to list here, if you can let me have contact details perhaps I can help.
Best wishes
Mike
Added by Mike Hebard on 28 August 2011.
To add to Jeffrey Smoker's data:
ELL 127 - A Leyland O.FT3A, features in the Leyland Society "Fire Engines" Book, the Will Hay film "Where's That Fire?" and an LFB photo after a hose reel had been fitted;
ELL 124 - features on Flickr at a fire in Essex Road, 13/9/58, described as a Big 4;
ELL 130 - also on Flickr as a Big 4 at a fire in Boyston Road, 2/10/55
FGU 687 - LFB Photo, in the Lambeth Workshop 1953
BLC 554 - a Dennis, the first limousine and the most photographed at what looks like its delivery day at Southwark in 1935: features in an LFB photo, Pathe News "The Latest Firefighter", the Fire History Group, Getty Images and the Dumpy Book of Motors 1957;
FGU 689 - on Flickr as a Big 4: dual purpose appliance?
BYV 319 - a Leyland FT£ "BA Van", features in the Leyland book and Pathe News "Modern Firefighter"
DGJ 305 - Leyland FT3A, features on LFB site and Leyland book.
I too am in interested in the LCC limousine, and asked on another page (but it belongs better here) why there isn't a preserved one. The design was by Major Morris and the machines built by Leyland and Dennis: while obviously similar, the Dennis seems to have more elegant and sweeping lines. Given that this was arguably the most striking British appliance design of all and that some survived into the 1960s, it's a great pity that none still exists, particularly when less notable Dennis's are being restored. Grateful for any thoughts/insights.
Added by J H Thrower on 08 August 2012.
ELL 127 - A Leyland O.FT3A, features in the Leyland Society "Fire Engines" Book, the Will Hay film "Where's That Fire?" and an LFB photo after a hose reel had been fitted;
ELL 124 - features on Flickr at a fire in Essex Road, 13/9/58, described as a Big 4;
ELL 130 - also on Flickr as a Big 4 at a fire in Boyston Road, 2/10/55
FGU 687 - LFB Photo, in the Lambeth Workshop 1953
BLC 554 - a Dennis, the first limousine and the most photographed at what looks like its delivery day at Southwark in 1935: features in an LFB photo, Pathe News "The Latest Firefighter", the Fire History Group, Getty Images and the Dumpy Book of Motors 1957;
FGU 689 - on Flickr as a Big 4: dual purpose appliance?
BYV 319 - a Leyland FT£ "BA Van", features in the Leyland book and Pathe News "Modern Firefighter"
DGJ 305 - Leyland FT3A, features on LFB site and Leyland book.
I too am in interested in the LCC limousine, and asked on another page (but it belongs better here) why there isn't a preserved one. The design was by Major Morris and the machines built by Leyland and Dennis: while obviously similar, the Dennis seems to have more elegant and sweeping lines. Given that this was arguably the most striking British appliance design of all and that some survived into the 1960s, it's a great pity that none still exists, particularly when less notable Dennis's are being restored. Grateful for any thoughts/insights.
Added by J H Thrower on 08 August 2012.
DGJ 309 is currently in a spare bay at Plaistow fire station (the ex West ham FB station soon tobe redeveloped)in East London. It made a fine site as I cycled past yesterday.It there for tragic reasons though as it was used at the funeral of a mechanic employed by Babcock to maintain fire appliances. He was killed on his cycle on the nearby A13. Firefighters provided a guard of honour.
Added by Peter Williams on 08 December 2012.
Added by Peter Williams on 08 December 2012.
DGJ 309 can be seen in action with the ladder used, on a 1959 episode in the ‘Scotland Yard’ film series with Edgar Lustgarten, made by Merton Park Studios, the episode is titled ‘The Unseeing Eye’
Two other appliances NGX 846 and NGX 835 are also in the same episode.
Added by Colin on 31 July 2013.
Two other appliances NGX 846 and NGX 835 are also in the same episode.
Added by Colin on 31 July 2013.
Interesting (and more than a little depressing) that London had 16 TLs in the 1930s and now - after absorbing numerous additional areas in the fire service consolidation years ago - has only thirteen "aerials"!
It took forever to get four to the recent Newington Library roof fire, and at the infamous Grenfell Tower disaster the first one got there after more than an hour - none was dispatched on the first alarm!
On the subject of London's diesels, the first were the Merryweathers supplied in 1950 and built on what were essentially shortened London double deck bus chassis.
The Dennis F101 appliances with massive Rolls Royce 12 liter marine diesel engines were supplied a few years later in (I believe) around 1955. These were Dennis' first diesels, supplied only to London and Nottinghamshire.
Dennis also built at least one ET for London in or around 1957 with a Perkins 6-354 diesel, which was supposedly their "own" engine; this was quite a few years before they started to build the F105 series with the AEC AV470 diesel engine....
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 March 2018.
It took forever to get four to the recent Newington Library roof fire, and at the infamous Grenfell Tower disaster the first one got there after more than an hour - none was dispatched on the first alarm!
On the subject of London's diesels, the first were the Merryweathers supplied in 1950 and built on what were essentially shortened London double deck bus chassis.
The Dennis F101 appliances with massive Rolls Royce 12 liter marine diesel engines were supplied a few years later in (I believe) around 1955. These were Dennis' first diesels, supplied only to London and Nottinghamshire.
Dennis also built at least one ET for London in or around 1957 with a Perkins 6-354 diesel, which was supposedly their "own" engine; this was quite a few years before they started to build the F105 series with the AEC AV470 diesel engine....
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 March 2018.
I’m thinking this vintage TL conveyed my new wife and me from the church to reception venue back in 1985 in the Bromley area. Or am I mistaken?
Added by Peter Munro on 24 November 2020.
Added by Peter Munro on 24 November 2020.
Happy memories or riding on this appliance round London in 1990, LFB Blitz 50th anniversary reunion / re-enactment when Mike and I were a few years younger....
Added by Peter McCombie on 24 November 2020.
Added by Peter McCombie on 24 November 2020.
And here I came across this posting again today, 9 years later, while I am looking for the same information about the LFB's appliances from the 1920's-1940's! I am putting together a list in spreadsheet format.
Ed: have you come across John Nadal's fairly recent book called London's Fire Engines?
Added by Jeffrey D Smoker on 27 December 2020.
Ed: have you come across John Nadal's fairly recent book called London's Fire Engines?
Added by Jeffrey D Smoker on 27 December 2020.
Its nice to see my picture come up again on the site, but why now are we not notified of a comment being added?, just thought I'd ask. Had very little time to add pictures of late due to full commitment to writing and having my book published but now that's done I will once again send in some more pictures from the past......Question to the organiser of this and other sites, why can I not go into the site Model Transport where I once put a lot of pictures but now for some reason cannot access that site.
Ed: I have asked the site owners Plexus Media about your comments and await their reply. I understand the Model site was taken down for financial reasons. Great shame. I loved it.
Added by Peter Matten on 29 December 2020.
Ed: I have asked the site owners Plexus Media about your comments and await their reply. I understand the Model site was taken down for financial reasons. Great shame. I loved it.
Added by Peter Matten on 29 December 2020.
Leyland
Bob Graham
Richmond, California
Added by Bob Graham on 08 November 2009.