Fire Engines Photos

Intriguing position for the Deck Gun - on the cab roof. There must have been some structural stiffening underneath, to take the load. The operator would be standing on the mid-ships engine housing deck to operate it.

Great rig - awaiting the further info about her.

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 05 December 2008.

When Mack decided to buy the C.D.Beck company, the main attraction was their bus line.But when the Mack designers and engineers saw the Ahrens-Fox C.O.E.model
Beck was producing, they recognized its advantages and immediately renamed them
Mack C.Combining Mack reliabily with this great Ahrens-Fox design, 1055 Mack C's
were produced from 1957 to 1967.A great design for a great pumper with one small
problem.No room for the bulldog bonnet ornament.

Added by Pete Matten on 06 December 2008.

Thank's Pete. You know your history of Mack C model..It's a shame Ahrensfox went out of business, They are my favorite fire truck.(Really all fire trucks are my favorites).I live about an hour or so away from MACK country.It's also a sheme they stopped making the CF-600 and all fire trucks, And are now owened by VOLVO!!!I guess the good ol'days are gone.

Added by George frankenfield on 08 December 2008.

Thank's Pat.I will add the info asap, Just waiting on answers from NFD.The deck gun was usually removed when it was put into service.i have seen pictures of them operating from the roof, with the operator standing on the engine dog house.

Added by George frankenfield on 08 December 2008.

Ahrens-Fox salesman and mechanic Frank X. Griesser of Bogota, NJ, and Beck Bus engineer Jim Beck of Sidney, Ohio, developed this design for Ahrens-Fox in 1955, adapting the cab of a Beck Greyhound bus design, at the request of the fire department of East Rutherford, N.J., who wanted the visibility provided by the American-LaFrance 700 series (introduced in 1947) but the quality of Ahrens-Fox fire engines (East Rutherford had been buying Ahrens-Fox pumpers exclusively since 1916, and had bought 5 up to that time--6 counting that first cab-forward pumper).

Ahrens-Fox built only 6 of these cab-forward pumpers:

#2001 East Rutherford, NJ
#2002 Ho-Ho-Kus, NJ
#2003 Kennett Square, PA
#2004 Midland Park, NJ
#2005 Hempstead, NY
#2006 for Dumont, NJ (not accepted)

Frank Griesser, who co-designed this apparatus, made all 6 of these sales. And all 6 still survive.

When Ahrens-Fox and Beck Bus closed their factory in 1958, and sold the plant to the Mack Truck fire engine division, the last of the 6 cab-forward Ahrens-Fox pumpers (#2006) was sitting unsold at the Sidney factory. Frank Griesser drove Mack engineers around Sidney on it, and they were so impressed, they bought the rights to that design from Griesser, and it became the Mack Model C fire engine, in production until 1968. Mack also hired Griesser--who had worked for Ahrens-Fox since 1924-- as one of their fire engine salesmen, and he sold hundreds of these C Models all over NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, and VA.

And that last Fox cab-forward? It had been built for Dumont, NJ, but when Dumont learned that Ahrehns-Fox was closing its doors forever, they refused the pumper, fearing service would be unavailable (a groundless fear, it turned out, as "Mack salesman" Frank Griesser continued to provide repair service for Ahrens-Fox apparatus until his health forced him to retire from being a mechanic in 1983 at age 80--he made several repairs to my own 1953 Ahrens-Fox pumper in 1979-1980). Anyway, that final Fox cab-forward, Griesser sold and delivered it to Northern Hills, Ohio (just north of Cincinnati), in 1958, and it now belongs to Cincinnati Fire Museum.

In 1958, Hempstead so loved their cab-forwared Ahrens-Fox #2005 that they asked Frank Griesser if they could buy another. But they for some reason didn't want to buy from Mack. Local fire engine builder Approved Fire Equipment of Island Pak, N.Y., copied every detail of #2005, and built the pumper for Hempstead--and Hempstead insisted that Frank Griesser, who had sold, delievered, and repaired many of their fire engines over the years, sell this pumper to them and gets the commisison.

Approved, whose logo had always been AFE (for Approved Fire Equipment) dropped the E, so even their logo "AF" looked like it might stand for Ahrens-Fox. And while the Ahrens-Fox cab-forward serial numbers had been 2001-2006, Aprroved's cab-forwards were numbered 1001 to 1007.

Griesser persuaded Approved to build more of these "Ahrens-Fox cab forward" pumpers, and he sold them all for Approved, even though he was a saleman for Mack--in fact, he closed orders for two of them, even before he got the contract from Hempstead that strted the Approved cab-forward line:

#1001 Glenwood Landing, NY
#1002 Rosylyn Heights, NY
#1003 Hempstead, NY
#1004 Oceanside, NY
#1005 Manasquan, NJ
#1006 East meadow, NY
#1007 Keansburg, NJ

These look just like the Ahrens-Fox cab-forwards, and very similar to the Mack C Model. There are lingering questions about the legality of Approved having buiolt these, since Griesser had sold the rights for this design to Mack, and the legality of Griesser selling these for Approved while he was on the Mack payroll. But half a century later, with all the players in this saga long since passed away, does it really matter anymore who got away with what? Some interesting and beautiful fire engines came out of all this, and many fine examples from Ahrens-Fox, Approved, and Mack are still around for us to see and enjoy today.



Added by Ed Hass on 09 February 2009.

Thank you, Mr.Hass! You are No.1 in my book.Speaking of books, My copy of your Ahrenfox book is falling apart from reading it over and over!This is my favorite book in my collection.To everyone out there this is the most informative Ahrensfox book ever written!

Added by George frankenfield on 11 February 2009.

Frank Griesser was my Grandfather. I worked with him a couple of times when I was a child. His knowledge of firetrucks and his ability to tear one apart and put it back together were awe inspiring to me.

Added by Joseph F. Gaston on 17 April 2009.

Thanks Mr. Gaston. What always impressed me about your grandfather was at the annual antique fire engine musters at Valhalla, NY, in the 1970s, people (including me) would come up to Frank and tell him what problems they were having with their Ahrens-Fox apparatus. Right there at the muster, in his suit and tie, he would crawl around and fix the problem--and then emerge without a spot of grease on his nice clothing. And the problem would be fixed.

In 1979, when I had just bought my 1953 Ahrens-Fox (which Frank sold and delivered to New Milford, NJ, when it was new), I was having trouble drafting from the refleccting pond at Valhalla. Frank, then age 76, crawled into the pump compartment and declared that I needed new pump packing (the old packing had crubled to dust). He got some packing out of the trunk of his silver Cadillac and installed it, and I had water flowing through its pump for the first time in 7 years. I still have the photo of Frank Griesser, my brother, and me smiling and congratulating each other, with my pumper and its stream of water in the background.

He also showed me how to open the packing gland and install new pump packing--knowledge which has come in handy on mine and other pumpers a few times since then.

Frank also taught me to clean every tool when you finish with it, and put it back in its proper place. He was a first-class mechanic, a walking encyclopedia of fire service history (he lived a lot of it) and a rarity these days, he was a true gentleman, and always very honest.

I have some of Frank's old tools, and documents and photogarphs on some of the fire engines he sold and repaired over the years--everything neatly and meticulously typed by his charming wife, Hilda Griesser--whom he met, of course, while he was delivering a fire engine in 1928 (she was the mayor's daughter)!

Added by Ed Hass on 17 April 2009.

Frank X was my father who took me with him to repair Aherns Foxes(My pay was my food) I went with him to Conn.,NY,LI,VA,MD PA,and NJ. He could repair any & everything on AF"S including Motors,Trans.,Rears,Steering,Electrical BUT I believe HIS specialty was tearing apart a PISTON PUMP and rebuilding it back to it's original performance. I did many of these pumps with him & each one worked to his perfection. He was hard to work with because he never wanted to stop till the job was finished.But you would be hard pressed to find a better Teacher and DAD.
Thanks JOE for finding this site

Added by Chuck Griesser on 19 April 2009.

Frank was our Mack salesman for our 1961 C-85 Mack 750 GPM. My Dad was Capt. and on the Truck Comm. and mechanic and worked with Frank. I was a little kid of 5yrs and and Frank gave me Mack tie clips, bulldog pins etc. He spent many hrs with my Dad and our family and was a great guy . Our engine was one of the first in the area and copied by many towns. We are still using the "Old Reliable 61" as a Haz-Mat truck. She's still going strong at 48 yrs. Thanks for memories. Also E.Rutherford still has the 56 Fox.

Added by Mark W. Tomko on 30 April 2009.

Mr. Griesser was a genius. That about somes it all up

Added by George Frankenfield on 23 June 2009.

There are still quite a few Mack C series custom fire trucks in daily use in various South American countries, some of which can be seen in photos on this site. Most were, it seems, bought second hand from US fire departments - including several from New Jersey and Long Island.

As Mark mentioned, they have had an unparalleled reputation for "bullet proof" reliability and durability for decades, and I often wonder how things might have turned out if Mack had continued to build custom fire apparatus....

Added by Rob Johnson on 01 November 2018.

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