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Fire Engine Photos
Commer 45A/Miles WrT Essex
Not absolutely sure about identification here. Body is by Alfred Miles, and Mike Bunn's book on Essex says Miles bodied
some Commers for the brigade in mid 1950s. They also look very like the HCB models for Essex, which favoured normal
control chassis including Dodge and Bedford. See
Photo via Roger Rees, ex Miles employee, and used with permission.
Not absolutely sure about identification here. Body is by Alfred Miles, and Mike Bunn's book on Essex says Miles bodied
some Commers for the brigade in mid 1950s. They also look very like the HCB models for Essex, which favoured normal
control chassis including Dodge and Bedford. See
Photo via Roger Rees, ex Miles employee, and used with permission.
Chassis a Dodge Kew. regn appears to begin with a 7 which indicates a 1956 Dodge with HCB body. I have listed 756/758/762 & 764 JNO listed as HCB bodied.
Added by Jerry Hepworth on 10 July 2020.
Added by Jerry Hepworth on 10 July 2020.
This might just be a more intriguing story. This photo was found in Miles archives. However experts at the Essex Fire museum say it is a Dodge Kew with HCB bodywork in the 7 series as Jerry says. I am just wondering if HCB subcontracted some of the work to Miles because of the latter's expertise in aluminium bodywork which HCB might only just have been learning? Any views?
Added by Petros on 11 July 2020.
Added by Petros on 11 July 2020.
Would it be true to say that in the UK conventional normal control chassis were quite rare among UK fire services by the mid 1950s?
Most of the examples from this era on this and other photo sites seem to be full forward control - like Commer and Dennis - or semi forward control, such as AEC and Bedford.
Some other countries, including the US and Germany, seem to have taken a lot longer to switch over, although of course forward control custom chassis were becoming quite popular even in the 1950s, led by American La France.
Added by Rob Johnson on 11 July 2020.
Most of the examples from this era on this and other photo sites seem to be full forward control - like Commer and Dennis - or semi forward control, such as AEC and Bedford.
Some other countries, including the US and Germany, seem to have taken a lot longer to switch over, although of course forward control custom chassis were becoming quite popular even in the 1950s, led by American La France.
Added by Rob Johnson on 11 July 2020.
Rob Johnson - How do you see the difference between full forward control and semi-forward control?
Added by Roger Mardon on 08 February 2021.
Added by Roger Mardon on 08 February 2021.
Hi Roger. In the truck business, cab configuration is described in three categories:
1- Normal Control. The cab is behind the engine, just like a passenger car or pickup truck. This design died out gradually after WWII and is now very rare.
2- Forward control places the cab in front of the engine, with the driver sitting on the front axle next to the engine - or slightly ahead of it - and access between the front wheel arch and front bumper. It is now virtually the only cab configuration on all trucks.
3- Semi forward control also places the driver alongside the engine, and above the front axle, but has a shorter front overhang and the driver has to get in and out though a door above the front wheel arch, often using a step ring bolted to the front wheel.
Many British fire appliances built on semi forward control chassis with crew cabs did not have front doors, relying on the DPO and OIC climbing into their seats over the engine housing from the rear.
This design limited storage space for BA etc on a bulkhead between the front and rear seats, which was a common practice on full forward control appliances.
Examples of post war normal control appliances included this Dodge, the Leyland Comet and Bedford A and J series.
Forward control examples were Commer Q, Bedford TK, Dennis, ERF, Ford D series, Karrier and Shelvoke.
Semi forward control appliances included AEC and Bedford S series (including Green Goddesses).
Added by Rob Johnson on 08 February 2021.
1- Normal Control. The cab is behind the engine, just like a passenger car or pickup truck. This design died out gradually after WWII and is now very rare.
2- Forward control places the cab in front of the engine, with the driver sitting on the front axle next to the engine - or slightly ahead of it - and access between the front wheel arch and front bumper. It is now virtually the only cab configuration on all trucks.
3- Semi forward control also places the driver alongside the engine, and above the front axle, but has a shorter front overhang and the driver has to get in and out though a door above the front wheel arch, often using a step ring bolted to the front wheel.
Many British fire appliances built on semi forward control chassis with crew cabs did not have front doors, relying on the DPO and OIC climbing into their seats over the engine housing from the rear.
This design limited storage space for BA etc on a bulkhead between the front and rear seats, which was a common practice on full forward control appliances.
Examples of post war normal control appliances included this Dodge, the Leyland Comet and Bedford A and J series.
Forward control examples were Commer Q, Bedford TK, Dennis, ERF, Ford D series, Karrier and Shelvoke.
Semi forward control appliances included AEC and Bedford S series (including Green Goddesses).
Added by Rob Johnson on 08 February 2021.
You are very welcome Roger.
I should perhaps add that there are still quite a lot of normal control trucks in fire service use in the Americas, including Sterling, International Navistar, Mack, Mercedes, Scania, Freightliner and a few others.
Added by Rob Johnson on 10 February 2021.
I should perhaps add that there are still quite a lot of normal control trucks in fire service use in the Americas, including Sterling, International Navistar, Mack, Mercedes, Scania, Freightliner and a few others.
Added by Rob Johnson on 10 February 2021.
Commer
Added by CraigW on 09 July 2020.