Fire Engines Photos

Thanks for a lovely action shot from days gone by.
Glasgow Fire Service had a number of AEC Marquis pumps and a couple of AEC Mercury pumps. They looked substantially different from each other and in Glasgow this would have been a 'Marquis'.
Is it correct to call this a Mercury and a Marquis?

Added by Richard Aston on 10 December 2013.

Some of Glasgow's later Merryweather pumps had a full forward control four door cab, which was a special version of the same AEC chassis. This was specially engineered for fire appliance use. I believe the original design was introduced for a batch of Merryweather TLs, which were supplied to London. This design enabled the ladder, transverse-mounted pump and full crew cab to be mounted on a shorter wheelbase chassis, which improved maneuverability. Both the forward control and the standard versions had the same grille and cowl, but the forward control trucks did not have the wrap-around windscreen.

Added by Rob Johnson on 10 December 2013.

You's are a bit mixed up. Mercury was AECs designation for the chassis unit. Marquis was Merryweathers designation for the fire engine. The correct title therefore is AEC Mercury-Merryweather Marquis. The Glasgow machines with four door cabs were built by David Haydon of Birmingham, on AEC Mercury chassis. No Marquis name with these as Merryweather did not build them. The chassis was not specially engineered for fire engine use. The first Marquises were built on Maudslay Merlin 2 chassis and after 51 were built the AEC Mercury goods vehicle/tipper/lorry chassis was used. These had 13'-6" wheelbases, the Merlin 2 was 12' London TLs were on 17'6" chassis, shortened by 12" by retracting the front axles by that distance to accommodate doors for the driver and officer. Londons TLS came late in the production run of TLs.

Added by Ronald Henderson on 11 December 2013.

Ron - I vaguely remeember reading in the Merryweather house magazine ("The Fireamn") in the 1960s that Merryweather also supplied four door AEC Mercury dual purpose appliances to London, in addition to the ladders. Do you have any record of this?

As far as I know, the Mercury chassis was not converted to a full forward control configuration for any applications except fire appliance use. This was, I believe, because it offered a combination of better maneuverability - due to the shorter wheelbade - and better cab access for the DPO and OIC. It must have been quite an expensive conversion, which probably explains why only a few were built.

I have heard the Glasgow pumps referred to as Merryweather - did Merryweather have a hand in their production, or were they "pure" Haydon products?

Added by Rob Johnson on 11 December 2013.

Thank you for that explanation, Ronald. Now I understand.

The Glasgow Marquises seemed to be neat little machines while the Mercury appliances were big and bulky. Now I see why.

Added by Richard Aston on 11 December 2013.

Hi Rob, Londons AEC Mercury TLs were based on 16'-3" wheelbases, not as I said before, and reduced by 12" by retracting the front axle. There were 8 dual purpose Mercurys, also with retracted front axles, and three Carmichael bodied AEC Mercurys. Two other examples went to Edinburgh and some to Hong Kong. The only other retracted axles TLs were four for to West Riding of Yorkshire. There were thousands of full forward control Mercury's built for lorries and buses etc and I am not sure what you are suggesting here. I do not know of any normal control AEC Mercurys, fire or not. Glasgow had AEC Mercurys bodied by Merryweathers, Haydon and Pyrene and had AEC TLs with Metz, Magirus and Merryweather ladders.

Ron

Added by Ronald Henderson on 12 December 2013.

Rob Glasgow had a mixture of both Merryweather and Haydon. You can find this on Graeme Kirkwood's Site. History of Scottish Fire Brigades. Hope this helps.

Added by Grant Melville on 12 December 2013.

Ron;
Sorry, I did not mean to cause any confusion about the configuration of the Mercury chassis.

The standard chassis, like the machine portrayed above, was referred to in the truck industry as semi forward control, because the cab access was on top of the front axle, like a Bedford R or S series.

Full forward control referred to vehicles like the Bedford TK and Ford D series, which had the front axle further to the rear, and cab access in front of tye wheel arch. This was not a standard AEC Mercury design, as you mentioned, and required quite a bit of modification.

Added by Rob Johnson on 13 December 2013.

Rob, the Mercury chassis was used with the earlier AEC cabs and the later Ergomatic cabs which did have a low step in front of the wheel, just like Bedford TKs and Ford D series.

Added by Michael G on 13 December 2013.

Hi Guys Very interested in all your comments. I was a Merryweather apprentice and I worked at Greenwich from 1963 through to 1968. I worked on all aspects of the production process from building the pump and pump escapes to the TTL's. It brought back lots of memories to to these old photo's of the vehicles I actually produced from basic AEC, Fords and volvo chassis cabs.If there are any other lads out there that worked with me at Greenwich it would be great to hear from them.

Added by Dennis Harrington on 18 January 2016.

Hi Dennis
Remember me I was a Carpenter and Joiner apprentice at the same time as you Vaughan (Roy) Turney. I would like to have a chat and exchange photo's.My email is [email protected].

Added by Vaughan Turney on 04 May 2017.

Gentlemen: Do either of you Merryweather experts know who built the cabs for the Ford D series Marksman appliances?

I always thought it was the most successful adaptation of the factory tilt cab, better than either Carmichael or HCB-Angus.

Do we know how many were built?

Added by Rob Johnson on 05 May 2017.

the marksman was a product of merryweather who designed and built the crew cab , it was their swansong as they only made relatively few and pulled out of fire appliance manufacture just after


Added by Alan Ramsay on 10 May 2017.

Hi Rob. Hi Hi Alan. During the time I was serving my apprenticeship the AEC Murcury chassis cabs were being phased out and being replaced by what we used to call AEC "flat fronts" and this is when the Ford chassis cabs started to appear. These were really easy to drive and very often we used to race these up and down the yard when there were no bosses around. I remember guys like Peter White and John Pomeroy seemed to be pretty good at it and went onto become registerd drivers when they finished their time. I wonder where they are now ? Anyway nice to be in touch speak to you soon Regards Dennis

Added by Dennis Harrington on 11 May 2017.

Hi Dennis, thanks for your input can you confirm that often mistaken for an AEC Mercury, the Maudslay Merlin II chassis with 12' wheelbase was chosen by Merryweather & Sons Ltd for their first, second and third series of 'Marquis' fire appliances built between 1954 and 1960, and were the last true Maudslays in production, outlasting all other types by several years.merryweather did not help the confusion by putting an aec style front and grill(they used the same front for t/l and later aec pumps and by this time maudsley was aec owned

Marquis Series I appliances were Merlin chassis nos 50501-50506 with AEC AV470 diesel engine and 4-speed sliding mesh gearbox.

Marquis Series II were Merlin chassis nos 50507-50551 with the AV470 and 4- or 5-speed synchromesh gearbox. The first, 50501, was on the Maudslay stand at the 1954 Commercial Motor Show and later sold to the Municipality of Kisumu, Kenya. The last, 50551, was Bradford Fire Brigade's VKY634., this information is from the maudsley website and as a retired firefighter I have made that mistake myself

Added by Alan Ramsay on 11 May 2017.

Hi guys

Whoa !! You just lost me completely we only built the machine from basic chassis cabs No idea at all about the technical stuff you mention sorry but it was a long time ago

Regards. Dennis

Added by Dennis Harrington on 11 May 2017.

Please add your comments about this picture using the form below.

Comments

Your Name

Your email address - this will be shown on the page and will allow the system to notify you of further comments added to this picture.