Fire Engines Photos

this is the usar search dog van.

Added by Graham on 25 July 2013.

Does Norfolk have white fire and rescue vehicles now, or is this paint scheme a "one-off"?

Added by Rob Johnson on 26 July 2013.

This is a one off Rob. We still have red machines, unfortunately with silly stickers named after cake down the sides!

Added by John Stott on 26 July 2013.

John: sweet! Are there any of these tasty morsels on this site yet?

What will they think of next?

Added by Rob Johnson on 27 July 2013.

Yes Rob though like all good things you have to trawl around, Norfolk is a grand place, mainly retained cover apart from Kings Lynn, Norwich and Yarmouth.
An interesting trend for a few years has been quite a few men having retained status as their main occupation. There are still some self employed and employers who drop everything of course when a bleeper goes off. We are lucky in that respect, that folk still have a sense of community and duty. My last years retained earnings for another county were around £6000 in 1991. I have a friend just over the border in South Lincs ( they have first responder turn out as well ) his retained pay exceeds what most locals earn annually for a "normal" job. Ok some would argue its 24 /7 commitment but for a younger jock it is not a bad lifestyle :)

Added by John Stott on 28 July 2013.

Norfolk Fire and Rescue Service does not use battenburg markings in their fleet.
the only battenburg markings are on the new dimensions vehicles, HVP, USAR, IRU

Added by Graham on 28 July 2013.

John - I don't know if you caught any of the earlier comments about retained and volunteer firefighters on this site, but I was struck by the numbers of volunteers inplaces like the US, France, Germany and Japan, compared to the UK where there are hardly any.

I wonder if UK fire services who often seem to be struggling to recruit enough retained personnel might not fill the gaps with volunteers?

Added by Rob Johnson on 29 July 2013.

Its historical I think Rob. There are some volunteers on islands and in very rural locations. The term retained is just that meaning, retained for a annual fee with callout added. I have mixed feelings about it but agree volunteers are a good thing in the long term. My dad served in the AFS for a long time, many small airfields have volunteer brigades as well.
I dont want to start an argument, folk are sensitive on here! However, I speak from my own experience only. I served in three county brigades as a retained man. In all but one we were seen as the poor relation to full time colleagues. Not everyone, but a lot. Restricted in using some rescue and first aid gear, and woe betide a "strike breaking" retained crew.
There are endless discussions on here about each role, other countries, especially Australia have wonderful volunteer brigades, even designing and building their own appliances based on their local needs. Japan and elsewhere are the same, including the recent tragic loss in the USA, well that shows an ethos I admire.
In the UK, again my opinion, well county brigades have had too much say in appliance purchase. There are some very expensive examples of white elephants over many years. Frankly a waste of public finances. The AFS offered an example of standardisation and uniformity, this ensures cost awareness and economy of scale. Even today thats relevant, so a national fire service would be my way of thinking. A place for full time career folk and retained, with a healthy number of volunteers to provide the essential manpower.
Standard appliance design, no frills, no exceptions to design and cut costs. There, I did not intend to start a riot but......
When we look overseas we can see fine examples of how the job can be done and how firefighters can contribute to the benefit of their communities.
Graham, thanks for pointing it out about the cake on Norfolks machines, I fear the days are numbered though!

Added by John Stott on 29 July 2013.

Volunteerism shows the true community spirit and local pride. Big government is out and has little interference. The members take more interest and pride in their vehicles and the service they provide. Yes, there are standards and requirements, but the locals decide how to implement them.

Added by John Harris on 29 July 2013.

John:

It does seem possible to combine full-time and volunteer resouces. In many smaller French towns the standard approach is to have a paid day crew or a 24 hour watch to man the first due appliance and/or ambulance, with all backup appliances and special equipment (including aerials, rescue trucks and pod carriers) manned by volunteers.

Similar arrangements exist in many towns in Italy, Spain, Germany and the US - but in all these cases the volunteers crew the same units as the full-time members, so there are no "second-class" members or equipment. In several volunteer outfits here, the driver and the one firefighter/paramedic on watch are full-time, but the company officers (and chiefs) are all volunteers.

I agree there is no silver bullet, but the case for a national fire service is very strong. Here, it would need to be federal. The differences in fire cover, equipment, manning and response times are quite amazing. Very affluent communities have fantastic equipment way beyond any meaningful needs, architecural prize-winning fire stations and - in large cities - amazing numbers of full-time firefighters.

Go to a small agricutural rural town and you will find a dilapidated shed, elderly second-hand trucks leaking oil and volunteers who share turnout gear and have to work with rusted out booster tanks and odd lengths of hose, which have been cut down because of splits and leaks!

Added by Rob Johnson on 29 July 2013.

I doubt we'll ever see a nationalized fire service in the US -- Americans are much too dedicated to local control. It's even controversial to group fire departments in a single county, into a county-wide fire service (as Montgomery County, Maryland did about 10 years ago, after years of fighting about it).

The most effective role for the Feds is probably to set standards -- or endorse private-sector ones like NFPA -- and provide grants to local agencies for equipment they can't afford on their own.

Small volunteer departments here often have beautiful equipment, lovingly maintained by the volunteers. It's a point of real pride in some towns. Of course, we also have towns like Rob describes. He is right -- the situation is very nonuniform. But most things are nonuniform in this country. It is the way it is, and not likely to change much.

Added by Mike Feldman on 29 July 2013.

I completely agree. Like education, policing and health care, fire protection is a local issue.

Communities with affluent citizens and big budgets can do great things - other ones are less fortunate and have to make do with much less. If it were not for the volunteer spirit, many areas would have no fire protection to speak of at all!

Added by Rob Johnson on 30 July 2013.

In Chile, most firemen are volunteers, even in major cities. They do not receive any government funding and must pay for new department equipment by their own means. They must also pay for specialisation courses, such as rescue or HAZMAT, themselves.

Added by Tiger on 04 August 2013.

Tiger - Santiago fire companies seem to operate with quite a variety of French and US trucks in several different colors, and to have uniforms in both US and European styles. Are these also mostly or all volunteers too?

Added by Rob Johnson on 25 August 2013.

I don't know for certain, but from what I've heard and what I've researched, the variety of trucks and uniforms would fit in with being volunteer. Because, if you only have a limited budget and no government funding, if a French uniform company or an American vehicle company offer the cheapest prices, you'll go with them. This would help to explain the great variety of equipment in use. It would be an absolute nightmare at the brigade repair shops, though.

Added by Tiger on 26 August 2013.

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