Fire Engines Photos

What a shot - a unique (and rare)Front-Mount Pump in action, on a classic city fire-scene.

The fire must be under control; judging by everyone, and their kids, happily coming to see what's going on; perhaps on a Sunday ?

Is the Pump Operator in the cover-alls (Boiler Suit); or is he the Shops' Mechanic; and Pump Operator (Driver) is in his tunic ?

And which hoses are the Suction (Intakes) ?

For we readers outside of Britain, and its Fire Services - it is a very interesting picture, of a bygone era..... wonder, if these buildings are even still standing ?

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 03 August 2009.

Hi Pat,
The man on the right (in uniform) is the driver of the Leyland pump escape and the one on the left is the driver of the Dennis Metz TL that you can just see in the background. The hard suction is not in use. They have taken in two hose lines from hydrants and three hose lines head off to the fire which is some distance away. This photo was taken in July 1965 (not as I said above)which would be the school holidays. In those days nobody worried about a few kids getting in the way - I was a kid and I took the photo!
Regards, Richard

Added by Richard Aston on 04 August 2009.

Truly fantastic old picture.A classic Leyland in action from a golden era,and like so many of those old black & white photo's it stands out in being something a little special.
Richard,thankyou for sharing the picture with us.I'll never tire of seeing these B/W pictures.

Added by Pete Matten on 04 August 2009.

Richard many thanks for sharing this photo of a classic fire engine. When I was a kid in Manchester, the City of Manchester ran some Leyland Firemaster pump escapes and an ET. I remember them on the run and have seen them in action at jobs too. I can only think back and wish I had taken some photos then. I know a Farmer who still owns a Manchester Firemaster which is in need of restoration, I only wish I had the money and room to purchase it and put it back on the road. Thanks again you just made my day. Have you anymore classics to share ?

Added by Paul Warnock on 04 August 2009.

Hi Pat, Pete and Paul,
Your comments are much appreciated. I will look through my old photos for other shots but I am afraid most of them are probably badly taken. I was not very good with a camera in those days. I will see if any might be good enough for public viewing!
Regards
Richard


Added by Richard Aston on 04 August 2009.

Thank you so much for this Richard, a golden age and such an atmospheric picture.

Added by John Stott on 05 August 2009.

Paul, I too know of that farmer in North Yorkshire and visited him to view his vehicles about 4 years ago - when I left he said he may sell it one day so I left him my details - frustratingly he's just sold both the Firemaster (bodied by Cockers of Southport) and the ex Rowntrees of York 60' TL through Cheffins auction at Harrogate a fortnight ago for a pittance! I have no knowledge of who the new owners are though !

Added by Rick Loudon on 31 August 2009.

Rick/Paul having just seen the auction results of the sale of that Firemaster (6900 NF) I have stumbled across the comments here. I am still in shock that another Firemaster existed (as I assumed that the PE in the Glasgow musem and the TL were the sole remaining examples) and even more shocked at the sale results! gobsmacked no further comment at this time. . .

Added by John D on 01 September 2009.

This is a link to the sale results page for the Firemaster;

www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-358114-vintage-0

It sold for £2,200 which I think was rather a bargain for such a unique machine.

Added by Dr. B.A. Hutchinson on 01 September 2009.

It went to a guy from Doncaster who knows nothing about fire appliances. Rob Bonner from the FBS and Rochdale Fire Museum had a long chat to the man and has promised him any support needed so hopefully it will be in good hands. I saw a photo of the Firemaster at the auction and it does look in quite good condition. Unfortunately due to copyright issues I am not able to post the pic on here at the moment...may well be able to do later

Added by Barrie Green on 01 September 2009.

I bet no one complains to much about the quality, the old ones are so interesting.
Andrew.

Added by Andrew Wright on 01 September 2009.

Thank you Richard for an excellent photograph typifying what a great fire engine heritage we used to have prior to the Germans and Nordics comming. I may be right in saying that ironicaly Glasgow started the ball rolling by allocating Magirus-Deutz WrE's NGE 47/8F on the run. Keep them comming please as we see a lot of Southeastern, Southwestern and Northeastern areas but rarely see anything from Glasgow.

Added by Andy Middleton on 25 November 2009.

Andy, Yes, soon after I left Glasgow in the late 1960's they started buying some weird and wonderful appliances that I would call trucks and not fire engines - but that's progress I am told.
Photographs of that time are proving elusive right now but they may still come to light. As a teenager I must have followed Glasgow fire appliances to more than 1000 calls so I do have some photos somewhere. Regards, Richard

Added by Richard Aston on 25 November 2009.

Have fond memories of the landrover RT running out of Easterhouse ( where I was born ) which was the station my uncle was a driver/pump operator at. also remember teh Dodge k series, the CSV's and also Dennis running out of easterhouse. now am keeping the tradition going albeit with the 'enemy' lol.

Added by Stevie Murray on 26 November 2009.

I have memories of the Leyland Fire Master out of London Rd E50 having been treated by friends to Runs to and from Upton St in the PE and a Run along the Mancunian Way when it first opened in the ET which had a Generator in the Front in place of the Pump. Oh how I wanted to have that ET when I left school my then friend Steve Millward was on Blue Watch before being moved to Hattersley.

Added by Paul Crichton on 08 January 2010.

You would cry if you saw the state of the ET Paul

Added by Barrie Green on 08 January 2010.

Barrie,

Do you mean the ET still survives ? I last knew of it painted green and in use as a mobile home - have you any further info please ?

Added by Rick Loudon on 09 January 2010.

I spent many hours in London Road fire station as a lad, I used to just go and ask if I could have a look round, the firemen always let me in. Happy days.I wish I had a camera then when I think about the fantastic photos I could have taken of the appliances and the drills in the rear yard.

Added by Paul Warnock on 09 January 2010.

Hi Paul. Interesting to hear about the London Road ET, could you contact me off group please. Thanks Paul Warnock.

Added by Paul warnock on 09 January 2010.

Yes Rick thats the last information I had, a New Age traveller site looking rather sad. A pic is on the Dave Shakespeare site

Added by Barrie Green on 09 January 2010.

This is the link to the ET photograph;

www.fireenginepics.fotopic.net/p40175660.html

It certainly looks all there. A good respray would make it look a lot happier.

Added by Dr. B.A. Hutchinson on 10 January 2010.

I don't want to be the one to shatter everyone's hopes about this vehicle but I feel you should know that the same photo appears on another website called 'Travellerhomes'. It was taken at Glastonbury on 19.6.90 and is accompanied by a comment stating the vehicle was believed to have been written off some time after that.
The 'Travellerhomes' site is worth a visit as there are numerous former appliances to be found on it's pages.

Added by Chris Wood on 12 January 2010.

Hi, I think the Driver of the appliance in the picture is Jimmy (Paw Broon) Brown. I was stationed at the North West Fire Station from 1973 until 1996. The Leyland Firemaster was the first appliance that I drove at the North West.It was a great machine to drive and was ahead of its time. The North West apppliance, on it's retirement, was sadly converted and became a breakdown truck. The 'Firmasters' were retired early as finding engine parts etc. became allmost impossible. The last person to drive the 'Firemaster' in the Transport Museum was a late colleague, Ian McNiven. The engine self destructed en-route and the vehicle had to be pushed into the Museum.

Added by Eric Whitelaw on 15 July 2011.

Hi Eric.
It was indeed Jimmy Brown. In my day he was almost always the Driver of the Leyland Firemaster when on duty. I cannot remember the name of the TL driver in the picture but, again, he almost always drove the TL.
Are either of them still around? Jimmy was always friendly and helpful and there was more time to chat to him as the TL usually turned round and went home as soon as it arrived at the shout.
Regards
Richard

Added by Richard Aston on 15 July 2011.

For many years we thought only ten Firemasters (including the two TLs) had been built. Then, we suddenly found a picture which I noticed had left-hand-drive, and we found that this eleventh example went to Kuwait.

Added by Ian Moore on 16 July 2011.

hi
i came across this picture by chance , bless google .
i joined the service in 1965 and stationed at the North West. I was only there just under 4 years before joining the police and met many fine men at that station and still recall all their faces well. The two in the picture are James Brown (in the tunic ) and Alec Ferrier , Nickname Muff.
Both fine men I assure you and I can honestly say the guys in that station were such an influence on me for the rest of my life. Thanks for the pic .

Added by Donald (donnie) Hardie on 15 June 2012.

Did Glasgow make there own escape ladders like Liverpool?

Added by Dave Price on 16 June 2012.

Hi,
Just found the picture of the North West Appliances and the comments. I was stationed at C1 at the same time as Donnie, and I still have a tape of him singing in the canteen on a night shift. I also helped him on his part time job, painting and decorating. Happy Memories! Hector Aitken 1018 GFS

Added by Hector Aitken on 23 June 2012.

I posted a picture of 74 CGD as it ended its days - a breakdown lorry with a garage - but for some unbeknown reason, neither it nor the shot of Glasgow's other Firemaster (YGG 209) appeared.

Note from the Editor: The reason is obvious, the two photos are already on this website. So in the future keep in mind what you already uploaded. thank you.

Added by Ian Moore on 24 June 2012.

Sorry - I didn't realise the shot of 74 CGD as a breakdown lorry in particular was already on - it's another sign of my old age obviously !

Added by Ian Moore on 24 June 2012.

hello, might be a stupid question but this is a photo from 1965, when did brigades start using blue flashing beacons?

Added by John Macrae on 17 July 2012.

Late 50s early 60s I would think John

Added by Barrie Green on 18 July 2012.

Firemaster-Magirus TL 999MHN was delivered to Darlington in 1960 or 1961. The Northern Echo at the time made mention of the fact that it had the new style blue rotating beacon lights (invented by the German Nazi government in the 1930s), so I would say this is more or less the date. As a temporary measure, DFB changed the lenses in the amber flashers on their older Dennis and Commer appliances to blue, before actually installing one or two blue beacons on the three of them a little later.

Added by Rob Johnson on 18 July 2012.

PS - Actual delivery date of 999 MHN was July 1960, to be specific.

Added by Rob Johnson on 18 July 2012.

The first beacon I saw was on a mock up police car in Manchester for the filming of Hell is a City in Manchester 1960.......I do know they had been fitted to some emergency vehicles prior to that so I stand by my guess of late 1950s


Added by Barrie Green on 18 July 2012.

999 MHN has certainly been one of the very first in the region to have blue beacons then. Shooting off at a tangent, I do know that the first Northumberland police vehicles to be so fitted were the Sunbeam Rapiers, the first examples of which came in 1962.

Added by Ian Moore on 19 July 2012.

The beacons were installed on appliances at north west fire station about 18 months before I took this photo.

Added by Richard Aston on 19 July 2012.

Barrie:
I think you are right as far as police cars go, but I seem to recall they were the first to instal blue lights, and fire appliances and ambulances came along a little later. At the time, I thought "blue = police", because of course police stations had a blue lantern above the front door. Funnily enough, the Darlington Fire Brigade had two Morris Commercial ambulances in the early 1950s which had blue flashing lights, and I remember they were fitted on the front bumper - but I have no idea why! (The other five did not have blue lights.)Let's agree that blue for fire appliances became the standard most probably in 1959 or 1960.

Added by Rob Johnson on 19 July 2012.

Although I do not personally associate blue with urgency, I think it is sensible (and now Europe-wide) for emergency vehicles to have one standard color. Thanks, Adolf.
Here in the US, we have endless combinations of red, yellow, white, blue and even green lights on emergency vehicles, not to mention a dazzling variety of paint colors, lettering and striping designs.
Now that cities are running short of money, there's also a good chance of also seeing advertising on municipal emergency vehicles - what a mess!

Added by Rob Johnson on 19 July 2012.

Rob....in 1967 I was a fireman at Teesside Airport and we had an ex Darlington Austin LD Ambulance in our fleet......it had a 'lighthouse' style blue beacon on the roof but it had an single amber flashing light on the front above the ambulance sign. (we used it as an obstruction flasher when driving airside)
Some vehicles had Nortek Blue Spot foglights on the front bumpers, they had a large blue centre on the lens, they were available to the public at Halfords and showed either a white or amber beam, not a blue one.


Added by Barrie Green on 19 July 2012.

Barrie:
These two were the previous generation, bought in the early 1950s or possibly even earlier. The lamp lenses were all blue, not Noteks (which I do remember), but I never saw them lit up. Perhaps, like their famous yellow fire helmets, DFB were just a few years ahead of the times!

Added by Rob Johnson on 19 July 2012.

I remember discussion in the 60s in FIRE magazine on beacon colour and type. Blue has a poor light tranferance rate, yellow being best, but blue was kept for rarety value ie brake lights and trafficators. The type of light where the mirror revolved round the bulb was found to be the most effective. The light is supposed to emit in the horizontal plane, in the early days not all did, especially with retro fits.

Added by Neal Glover on 19 July 2012.

Barrie: Notek blue spot foglights - I remember those ! As you so correctly say, they were a driving lamp rather than an emergency one.

Added by Ian Moore on 20 July 2012.

These Firemaster pump escapes had a relatively powerful pump, which - I believe - was the same as the AFS EP "Green Goddess" pumps, and was rated at 900 IGPM at 100 PSI, equivalent to around 4000 LPM at 7AT.

This example is supplying three handlines, probably flowing anything up to 3500 LPM, and taking its water through two hose lines.

These are probably connected to two separate hydrants, although it is possible that a single hydrant in an industrial area with a big enough main could have sufficed.

Although many countries have pretty strict standards for hydrant flow capacity - and hydrant spacing on the street - the UK seems to leave this up to local authorities.

I have found water authority guidelines which recommend hydrants should flow at least 500 LPM in residential areas, up to 2000 LPM in industrial zones.

In other European countries, such as France, 1000 LPM is considered the minimum, with 2000 LPM in many areas of cities like Paris.

With a very different attitude to structural fire risks in the US, hydrants are considered marginal if they flow less than 1800 LPM, and most have a capacity between 3500 and 5500 LPM.

Many countries require hydrants be no more than 100 meters apart, and this seems to be more or less the norm in the UK too.

Added by Rob Johnson on 06 July 2020.

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