Fire Engines Photos

Stephen, its nice to know a little information on this appliance.I have a photo
I took some 25 years ago of this appliance at a show with the trailor pump.It
was at that time actually showing its origonal registration-JL 7022.It looks
like its been fully restored since I last saw it and looks good.Nice picture.

Added by Pete Matten on 05 October 2008.

It apparently has a sister appliance JL7021 which is last known to be preserved down Portsmouth way. I am unsure of the owner for the above, but this was taken at the Bedford show in Huntingdon in 2005. I would be interested in seeing that photo.

Added by Stephen Kirkpatrick on 05 October 2008.

Yeah I thought I recognised it shame its lost its original number the bodybuilder was from memory the local undertaker!!! where is this vehicle now?

Added by Rick Loudon on 05 October 2008.

Stephen:

A beautiful little rig, and unique lines.

Looking at the cabin-top lines, that firm in Spalding had to be boat-builders - they have done a great job of the coach-work; and now in preservation.

Thanks for bringing her to us.

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 06 October 2008.

Hi Stephen,
It's nice to see an "after" photo of this preserved 1939 Bedford which was so typical of small town appliances. The old picture I have shows it with its original license number, painted on the left fron fender and looking as if it has been left in a field to rot away. Did you take more pics of it, from the other side, with the sun in back of you, for instance?
Bob Graham





Added by Bob Graham on 06 October 2008.

Hi Stephen, I'm sending you direct the photo I have of JL 7022 with the
original registration-the photo is not good enough for showing on here.

Added by Pete Matten on 06 October 2008.

This Bedford M commercial vehicle chassis was first introduced in 1939 and
remained in production until 1953.The appliance was one of 2 purchased by
the Boston Rural District Council Fire Brigade in 1939 to tow a trailor pump.
It had a 200gal water tank but did not have a pump fitted.After the war this
appliance became part of the Holland Fire Brigade(Lincolnshire)and actually
during its last few years of service, it was converted to a hose layer before
finally going out of service in 1956.

Added by Pete Matten on 07 October 2008.

Please - anyone got more pictures, at all, of this little beauty, especially as she would have appeared on call, towing her pump-trailer ?!?

There have been so many awful-looking "home-builts" [some appear on this Site] around that this one is a joy to behold, as to what can be done on a humble commercial chassis.

BTW, my province (New Brunswick) still has a few "home-built's" in service.

Regards, from Canada, Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 08 October 2008.

I saw this appliance at the Norfolk Police Gala Day on 2.9.07. and it didn't seem 'real' somehow. I am pleased to learn more about it's unusual appearance.
According to the programme for the show, it had a local owner.

Added by Chris Wood on 08 October 2008.

I have a B & W photo of this truck when at Kirton Station(will upload later)when it finished its service life i remember it was used has a wrecker truck with a small Garage in Pinchbeck Nr Spalding, it then whent into preservation, only know of one such vehicle but would be interested if there is another one.

Added by Pete Ashpool on 17 June 2009.

Re the picture of 1939 Bedford Reg ASJ 591, having spoken to a friend who lives in Kirton a couple of years ago - he's researched on my behalf this appliance. We saw him yesterday 21 Nov 09, at Long Eaton model show. He showed me a folder he has made up of information obtained. He has letters from the Brigade, photos, also pictures that I supplied to him, of the appliance with trailer pump & crew outside station. He has found names of all the members of the station at that time 1939.
We had some words re this machine regarding its reg no. Also the information we read on this website page seem to be confusing re the vehicle & location of vehicle.
As an ex owner of Bedford MLZ Reg JL7022, living in Fareham ( near Portsmouth Hants I can write the following history & explain re change of vehicle Reg no.
We bought the vehicle from Mr Ted Roberts of Hanwell north London in 1988 with a Coventry Climax trailer pump (this pump wasn't the correct one for the machine, it should've been a Scammell).
We were told that the chassis & cab was supplied to Edward White of Sleaford near Boston Lincs. (small white plaque on dashboard says E White Vauxhall dealer Sleaford) also garage is now a supermarket.
We beleive that body was built by local undertaker, as at that time the only folk with wood were undertakers, due to the start of WWII. Two machines were supplied & built. JL7021 stationed at Leverton, north of Boston, JL7022 stationed at Kirton, both Boston Rural District Council Fire Brigade.
Then both into National Fire Service & then Holland County after the War. JL7022 was converted to a hose layer before
finally going out of service in 1956.(our friend said that one of the firemen from Kirton remembers seeing the vehicle on the station approx. ? 1970 ? ) When out of service, JL7021 we were told, went to a US Airforce base, in Lincolnshire/Norfolk area, then it was being shipped to USA - the ship caught fire & it was pushed overboard !!? ?
JL7022 subsequently went to a garage at Pinchbeck near Spalding as a breakdown truck. It had hand operated crane fitted on back, (luckily the rear ladder gantry was removed & put in the top locker behind the water tank & was still there when bought for preservation). From there it went to a Radar Site 100x100 feet, where it was stored outside. We were further told it was in a firm at Whittlesea who sold & repaired pumps (firm's name unknown). A Mr Keith Evans bought the vehicle, worked on it for 2 days to get it running, & drove it back to London. Just arrived when the exhaust manifold broke into several pieces. It was restored in the London area, used by Keith, & several other people including Jim Dukes for vintage vehicle shows.
It then passed to Ted Roberts who with his father replaced most of the rear end. We purchased it in 1988. We sold it to a Mr S Gregory of Cosham, near Portsmouth approx 5 miles from our home.(the second address in Portsmouth area!).

We think that this is when the change of Reg came about & Mr S Gregory did not own it very long, & also sold off all the brass/copper ware at a vintage vehicle sale. From there it went to a car dealer, we don't know who, but we saw a small picture of it in a car paper, standing in a corner of a dealer's yard. It was then sold to a Mr G Young of South London for further restoration/rallying & as far as we know he is still the present owner.

BEDFORD MLZ first registered 13/12/1939 chassis NO.MLZ 7176 engine no, 7176 ? (from memory) Reg No JL7022. If the photo shown above of ASJ 591 has the vehicle chassis no. of MLZ 7176 then it is JL7022 which we owned. There's a colour photo of it on page 11 in book 'Fire Engines - a colour Portfolio' by Roger C Mardon ISBN no. 0-7110-2639-4 this shows it as we had the machine but location unknown (not at our home).
Messrs Roberts, Evans & ourselves were members of the Fire Service Preservation Group.

More info from us to follow.

Added by Chris & Di Wild on 23 November 2009.

Further to the comments of 22 November 09, re the BEDFORD JL7022 - It was on the Radar site at Crowland before going to the garage at Pinchbeck near Spalding.
The engine no. was KM8227 also we've found the advert that was in the FSPG newsletter from whence we bought the vehicle. From Mr Ted Roberts who lived in STANMORE,N. London, not HANWELL.
Whilst we were viewing/discussing terms, a Mr James Butlin phoned up & tried to buy the vehicle if we didn't have it.
There was a water supply - a 200 gall galvanized/riveted tank across the back behind the crew cab, with two, 2 3/4 inch instantaneous coupling outlet with gate valves each side, behind the crew cab doors.
The nearside rear had been replaced whilst in our ownership, after an elderly lady came round the bend near our house, slid on ice, came across the pavement; hitting the rear nearside back. We have photos of this damage. A local body building firm repaired the damage at her cost.
This is all information found by us last night.

Added by Chris & Di Wild on 23 November 2009.

Chris
Have located a site gives me all the Firemens names has they appear on the photograph taken when just issued.

Added by Pete Ashpool on 23 November 2009.

Thanks to Chris W. x 2 (Messrs. Wild & Wood) we now virtually have the complete story of Bedford MLZ JL 7022 (aka ASJ 591). This for Mr Wild - Chris, I remember taking some pix of this appliance outside your house in the late 80s, but I can't find the negs; any idea when it was? Incidentally I have spoken to Roger Mardon who has told me that he took his picture at Kew Pumping Station in the mid 1980s, so I assume it was when Ted Roberts had it. This for Mr Wood - Chris, your namesake says he
thought the last owner lived in south London but you advise that it's now owned locally to you. Any more info please.

Added by Simon Rowley on 27 December 2009.

Hi Simon,
Thanks for your reply re this Bedford. I do remember you taking the photos outside my place. I have the press cutting (including photo) of it parked outside my house. Unfortunately I didn’t write any date on it, but I presume it’s early 1988 going from the last paragraph (where you said you hoped it would be shown at the Pains Fireworks New Forest Fire engine rally Beaulieu in the August).
I believe I purchased the Bedford late 1987. (Reading from the page with the advert on the other side, it talks about hoping the FSPG newsletter would reach us all before Christmas of 1987).
From the 2 newspaper photos, plus my photos which I still have, in all these it shows the Reg No. as JL7022.
I have another photo Portsmouth Evening News 10 Sept 1988, where we took it to Portchester for my old Sub-Officer’s Golden Wedding. I certainly owned it in 1988. I have, since the last entry on this website, found a receipt for sale to Mr S Gregory dated 1 May 1997. I’ve found a Southampton Fire Engine, vintage vehicle rally programme 1991, & there’s an entry in it under Fire Engines F7 (which is the Bedford).
The person who owned it in London lived Syon Park area & I believe he kept the vehicle in the Norfolk area. (this would possibly answer Chris Wood’s point on this website). I plan to phone the owner as I want to ask him if he still owns it & also re a rally in Boston. (I’ll get back to you after this call).
Re the Roger Mardon picture; I’ve since looked at it again, & you are right – it is Kew pumping station & I think you are correct in saying it was when Ted Roberts owned it, because there is no Boston crest on the side, behind the rear door. Also the rear- most locker door hasn’t been completed. No white bumper, no white line around the front wings.
When I first learned of the Syon Park owner (a friend of Diane’s friend) I spoke to him at length re the vehicle & he said that the Reg No ASJ 591 was not the original – I suggested to him that he might wish to buy some plates with the correct JL7022 for showground use.
All paperwork I had, including a magazine of Lincolnshire Fire Brigade which showed the appliance & fire station, has been passed on to others including Roy at Kirton for his ongoing research for me.
Watch this space for further ....

Regards Chris & Di Wild


Added by Chris Wild on 28 December 2009.

Well done Chris...I found the negs now, taken on Tuesday March 15th 1988 at about 17.00 so you were probably just about to go on nights at B17. It's not in the rally programme for the New Forest Fire Engine Rally at the National Motor Museum, Beaulieu in August 1988 (we were told to keep the noise down - no sirens or two-tones), but it's in the programme for the first Southampton Fire Engine and Vintage Vehicle Rally at the Royal Victoria Country Park, Netley on July 29th & 30th 1990 - did you take part in the displays that we did at the New Forest Show at Brockenhurst immediately prior to the RVCP Rally?

JL 7022 is also in all the RVCP Rally programmes until the last one in 1994 (then called the Solent Emergency Vehicle Show) - I seem to remember that we had some good rallies then and it's good to know that, thanks to Mick Paull and his team (including yourself), there's still a superb fire engine rally in Hampshire.

Added by Simon Rowley on 29 December 2009.

Simon, apologies for the delay in replying, I had to find the programme before I could answer.
The owner at the time of the Gala Day was listed as G J Young of Beetley which is in mid Norfolk. I attended the same event this year (no longer run by the police) but this vehicle was not there.

Added by Chris Wood on 31 December 2009.

Thanks for this info Chris, I thought you'd be able to come up with an answer; however it does pose the question regarding the present owner that former owners Chris & Diane Wild have indicated lives in Syon Park although the appliance is kept in Norfolk. I assume then that Mr G J Young of Beetley might also live in London. We are getting nearer to the truth with every message!

Changing the subject slightly, I might have mentioned to you on the 'phone that I am researching Bedford fire appliances with the intention in bringing out a book on the subject in 2010. Thanks mainly to Ian Moore, I now have a complete listing of all postwar Bedfords supplied to UK local authority brigades. There are of course comprehensive lists of Home Office Bedfords and I hope to be able to put together a list of prewar Bedford fire appliances but that's not that easy so any info from any source would be appreciated.

In the first instance, I'm listing all the known surviving Bedford fire appliances starting with the prewar and wartime examples. The earliest on the list is ENF 568, thought to be a WTH HrT, but I have no details about it. NF is a Manchester registration and I have a picture of it taken at a rally in the GMC area back in the early 80s. Does anyone have any knowledge about this fire appliance, or for that matter, any other surviving Bedford appliances from that era?

Added by Simon Rowley on 31 December 2009.

Simon, I'm sure there wont be many you don't already know about! but just to throw one in the mix, do you know of DWW353 an M type in a museum in Howth Ireland? Incidentally along with a Dennis Ace much like my own.

Added by Paul Stevens on 31 December 2009.

Paul, thanks for this info and I did have it on my list. This is the MSZ that was new to the Denby Dale UDC and served at Skelmanthorpe. It was owned by Roger Simpson and yesterday Rick Louden told me the tale of it being driven over the Pennines in the freezing cold to Brian King's home in Wetherby. Subsequently it was sold at a Cheffins auction to Red Dwarf Chris Barrie (thanks to Rick and also Ian Moore for this info) and since then has found its way to the National Transport Museum of Ireland at Howth so it's been about a bit!

I understand that EYC 621 has now left your care and is back near Banwell; I spoke to Roy Rice yesterday and he gave me details of the new owner and told me that he hopes it will be on the rally field in 2010.

I am very grateful for your info, Paul, and would appreciate details of others that survive. See you at Odiham if not before!

Added by Simon Rowley on 31 December 2009.

I look forward to seeing EYC 621, sadly it had to go due to time/resources lacking. Just had another thought, a while back an OY, ex AWE Aldermaston was on ebay, do you know what happened to it?

Added by Paul Stevens on 01 January 2010.

Paul, I expect that you are referring to JLR 509, a Bedford OY that was with AWRE Aldermaston and was once preserved at Helston in Cornwall. I think it came to the London area but I've completely lost track of it so if anyone knows its whereabouts, I'd be very grateful to know. About how long ago was it on ebay?

Added by Simon Rowley on 01 January 2010.

Hi I've just spoken to Geoff Young of Syon Park, & he told me that he did keep the appliance (ASJ 591) at Beetley near Norwich. He's now sold the vehicle a few months ago to a farmer who lives somewhere in that Beetley area. He did say that someone approached him at the Norfolk Police Gala day 2007, & said that he knew of someone in the Portsmouth area who owned the other vehicle JL7021. As we now know that what he said re JL7021 was not the case. He must have been referring to JL 7022, (ASJ 591) which Geoff & I owned. We still don't know where the sister vehicle JL7021 is.... maybe the rumour lost overboard on route to USA years ago is correct ?
(not even on Lincoln stock list as our friend showed us).
Geoff bought the machine from a commercial vehicle dealer & he thinks the number was changed just before he got it.
Happy New Year & good hunting to all
If you've not seen it look up photo 2124.
Chris Wild

Added by CHRIS WILD on 07 January 2010.

picture 21214 is Pete Matten's photo of this little beauty, JL 7022, towing her trailer pump in 1988, at a rally.

What a history for her preservation...so, good to see it has happened.

Regards,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 14 January 2010.

Here we are four years on and a update on its location at Crowland Radar Station!!it was a redundant single mast radar with two cabins underneath, a radio ham lived on site same time, was not there for protection of site, nothing to catch fire !!remember next seeing it has a crane .

Added by Peter Ashpool on 24 November 2014.

Hi Peter, It was used as a breakdown truck by a local garage in Pinchbeck hence the hand operated crane. See my long history further up the page. Regards Chris

Added by Chris Wild on 25 November 2014.

Hi,
Jl7021 was purchased by me in late 1966 or early 1967 from the vauxhall dealer on Pinchbeck Road, in Spalding, Lincs. I was stationed in the US Air Force at the time. They told me that it was trade it for a new engine. It still had the "Holland County Fire Brigade" on the sides.
It spent the next one and a half years at RAF Crowland. At the end of my tour of duty it was sold to someone that said it was going to Norfolk and it was plan to be converted to carrying race cars.
I am not sure if that was done or it went else where.


Added by Vernon Keeley on 28 November 2014.

Hi Vernon I think the one your talking about was the one I owned which was JL 7022. I had pics of it at Crowland and it was used by a garage at Pinchbeck. There were hole on top of the chassis corresponding with holes in the base of the frame of a 30cwt crane. The ladder gantry was taken off and left in the locker behind the cab so could be put back on if future. Regards Chris

Added by Chris Wild on 02 December 2014.

Hi Vernon, this was JL 7022 which was used by garage at Pinchbeck, I had pics of it when at Crowland. There were holes in the chassis which correspond with hole in a 30cwt hand operated crane. The rear ladder gantry was taken off and put in locker behind cab so it could be replaced at a later date. Afriend from Kirton nr Boston research all details for me over the last three years.Sadly I no longer own it but it has now gone up to north Norfolk. Regards Chris

Added by Chris Wild on 02 December 2014.

Wondering one day what happened to JL7022, I came across this blog. Very interesting research., and most correct as told to me many years ago. JL7021 was indeed on with the American forces and lost overboard. Rear ladder gantry was not with the vehicle as stated in a couple of places. I made both the front and rear gantries. I went with a friend to Peterborough to get a list of all the equipment carried. I was subsequently offered most of the required items there and then and brought them back with us in a Landrover, including the ladder!
It is sad to see the later picture with the wrong number and wrong paint detail.
The crest is incorrect too. All that was on the side was "Boston Rural District Council Fire Brigade" With a very small crest on the locker door.
I may still have the photos I took when I first brought it back from a barn in Peterborough.
I would be interested to hear more about this appliance, possibly with a view to purchasing it back again.

Added by Keith Evans on 16 October 2015.

Hi Keith, I remember speaking to at Dorset steam fair a number of years ago which filled in a no of details, I was told that it was at a pump repairers yard in Whittlesey Lincs where you spent 2 days getting it running then drove back to London. Ted Roberts filled in most of the details when I bought it from him, with written sheets of paper by him & Jim Dukes. I sold it two a Bedford collector in Portsmouth, then I next saw it in a classic car paper, then bought buy a chap in from Syon Park in London who kept it at or near Beetley nr Dereham north Norfolk. He then sold it to a farmer in Beetley ( poss where it was kept ). I'd be interested to know more.

Added by Chris Wild on 20 October 2015.

Keith read my "history" further up this page

Added by Chris Wild on 20 October 2015.

A friend of my wife said that a friend of hers had bought an old fire engine, turns out it was JL7022. I spoke a length with new owner and sent him all paperwork I had. I contacted him again & that's when he told me he had sold it, I did checks with him on chassis no, engine no, to prove it was reg JL7022

Added by Chris Wild on 20 October 2015.

It would be nice to find this machine and buy it back to restore as original. I wonder what the story is behind the change in registration number.

Added by Keith Evans on 20 October 2015.

Keith could you ring me on 07711 867156 please

Added by Chris Wild on 21 October 2015.

can I maybe give a possible explanation re re number change, if the log book was lost or was classed has scrap but restored it would need a registration number DVLA would then allocate a spare registration number for the same year has original, Cambridgeshire Fire Service in the 80's had to re register about five appliances the numbers were for the same original year of registrations. just a suggestion!

Added by Peter Ashpool on 21 October 2015.

No Peter it was JL 7022 under my ownership, read my long comments above please

Added by Chris Wild on 22 October 2015.

Chris a question was asked why reg change from JL7022 , This was a suggestion poss why.used to have a ride in it when it was used has breakdown truck during Grass track car racing in Spalding during 1970's

Added by Peter Ashpool on 22 October 2015.

Peter I think I know why it was changed. Ring me on above number please

Added by Chris Wild on 23 October 2015.

Whatever the number and the reason behind the change, are we any closer to finding the vehicle? Does anyone have any idea which part of the country I should be looking?

Added by Keith Evans on 29 October 2015.

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