 | 5916 |
 | Paul Warnock |
 | 2008 |
 |
Dennis Water Ladder
DWT 472H. 1970 ?. Dennis water ladder. With an 8 cylinder Rolls Royce petrol engine. New to West Riding Fire Brigade. They had anumber of appliances painted white before going back to red. I think this appliance passed over to North Yorkshire on Local Government boundries change. I drove these as, they were spares in the early 1980's. Very fast appliance when the engine got warmed up ! But the brakes were not too hot from what I can remember !
Picture Added on 24 January 2008.
Comments
Paul, you did it again and come-up with another classic, my favorite old appliance, the Dennis'D'Series from the early 1970's....and in white.
I can remember driving our'D'to many-a-shout, it would never let us down
and would just keep on going.Brilliant photo, is she still around?.
Added by Pete Matten on 25 January 2008.
I can remember driving our'D'to many-a-shout, it would never let us down
and would just keep on going.Brilliant photo, is she still around?.
Added by Pete Matten on 25 January 2008.
Whoops Sorry, I made a little mistake and don't want Ian jumping on me again.I thought the above picture was of a Dennis 'D' Series and of course he's pointed out in fact its an F46.The eyes are not to good these days....
Added by Pete M on 25 January 2008.
Added by Pete M on 25 January 2008.
sorry to be a perfectionist but its not a D series its a Dennis f46
Added by Jason on 25 January 2008.
Added by Jason on 25 January 2008.
Brilliant picture Paul. I believe this one served at Knaresborough.
Added by Stewart Kaye on 25 January 2008.
Added by Stewart Kaye on 25 January 2008.
On the topic of identification, can anyone clarify if there is a particular system that Dennis utilized to designate the different models for F series/all appliances and what it is? (I.e what makes this an F46, when outwardly it looks like my all time favorite the F44).
I always assumed it was influenced by the combination of running gear, chassis and body style. But have never been able to crack the code.
Paul,
Great photograph by the way, this is a cracking looking machine, when and where was the picture taken?
Added by John Draysey on 25 January 2008.
I always assumed it was influenced by the combination of running gear, chassis and body style. But have never been able to crack the code.
Paul,
Great photograph by the way, this is a cracking looking machine, when and where was the picture taken?
Added by John Draysey on 25 January 2008.
I am led to understand that its more to do with locker layout as all of the f20 through to f49 are petrol engines, all from f101 on are diesel
but the f24 and f26 shared the same running gear but altered between slam lockers and shutters
wheel base also i really dont think there is a set code its a few things that set the difference
as i am very aware no two machines are the same although they can both be the same series!
Added by Jason on 27 January 2008.
but the f24 and f26 shared the same running gear but altered between slam lockers and shutters
wheel base also i really dont think there is a set code its a few things that set the difference
as i am very aware no two machines are the same although they can both be the same series!
Added by Jason on 27 January 2008.
Hi Pete glad you liked the photo, as mentioned I only drove them on a few occasions when our regular appliance was off the run. But great fun, I spoke to a Fireman from Wetherby Fire station, in the West Riding days when they ran two of these, one Wholetime and the other retained, and he said they used to fly up the A1 and give the Ambulances a run for there money going to jobs.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
Hi Stewart, thanks for that I wasn't sure what station it had served at.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
Hi John, I think the photo was taken at one the early Teeside fire engine rallies, cant remember exactly, sorry. And not sure of the year but it was when the Teeside rally was at the Airport. Paul.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
Added by Paul Warnock. on 27 January 2008.
The Dennis numbering scheme is something that is probably only known to someone at Dennis, but all in all, it's far too complex to go into here. Suffice it to say that with the exception of the F23 (of which there was but one example) the two digit types (eg: F26, F28, F34) were as a rule of thumb petrol engined, whilst the three digit ones (F106, F108, etc) were diesel. The numbering has nothing to do with the lockers at all, it's the chassis that has the designation. Such things as length, width, wheelbase, alll go towards differentiating the different models.
Added by Ian Moore on 27 January 2008.
Added by Ian Moore on 27 January 2008.
Ian, there was probably a 15 - 20 year period where petrol and diesel fire engines ran side by side. If you were making an equivalency table (ie. FXX petrol equates to F YYY diesel) for this period do you think there would be many matches?
Added by Barry on 28 January 2008.
Added by Barry on 28 January 2008.
Hi Barry,
Not many matches at all, and certainly none (except for the F23) that I mentioned last time in the F20s and above ranges. Which ones are you thinking of ?
Added by Ian Moore on 28 January 2008.
Not many matches at all, and certainly none (except for the F23) that I mentioned last time in the F20s and above ranges. Which ones are you thinking of ?
Added by Ian Moore on 28 January 2008.
Ian
I know Somerset Fire brigade had a batch of Dennis appliances with Dodge Diesel engines in the 1960's. They were useless on hills and had a habit of snapping fanbelts on a regular basis. I know two of them are registration 78CYA and 81CYA. Have you any idea what model number they were called because from the outside they look exactly the same as a F28 except the exhaust is at the side and not under the drivers footwell like the petrol engined appliances,
Regards
Paul
Added by Paul Pickford on 28 January 2008.
I know Somerset Fire brigade had a batch of Dennis appliances with Dodge Diesel engines in the 1960's. They were useless on hills and had a habit of snapping fanbelts on a regular basis. I know two of them are registration 78CYA and 81CYA. Have you any idea what model number they were called because from the outside they look exactly the same as a F28 except the exhaust is at the side and not under the drivers footwell like the petrol engined appliances,
Regards
Paul
Added by Paul Pickford on 28 January 2008.
Hi Paul,
Yes, indeed they did, and they had a total of nine, These were YYV 760-763 and 78-82 CYA.
The Dodge engined version was designated F25, and was ostensibly marketed as an alternative to the F24.
Ian.
Added by Ian Moore on 29 January 2008.
Yes, indeed they did, and they had a total of nine, These were YYV 760-763 and 78-82 CYA.
The Dodge engined version was designated F25, and was ostensibly marketed as an alternative to the F24.
Ian.
Added by Ian Moore on 29 January 2008.
Yes, I made a typo in my last. I should have said YYB 760-763, NOT YYV. Apologies.
Added by Ian Moore on 30 January 2008.
Added by Ian Moore on 30 January 2008.
I have just been to the Surrey history center and dennis f24 were produced in various wheelbases as denoted by suffix A'B'C 10' 12'6" 13'6".
however.
Every 2 digit type appliance aside from prototypes were petrol engined this is fact
every tripple letter series were diesel this avoided the suffixing of 2 digit machines
Numbering was to do with the prototyping of that vehicle and a colegue of mine has the works demonstrator f24 which was the benchmark for all f24s this had slam lockers and unless requested otherwise all f24s were to the same pattern be it a P, E whatever
the f30 range was the first to use the pre formed fiberglass cab design this changed its form during the years in detail changes this also helps denote nomencleture
wheelbase is only a factor in fixed length vehicles from 1950 onwards as these were made as chassis cabs ie TL, S and HP, s
the exception to this rule was the f7, 14, 17, 21 THESE WERE IN 13'6" 16'3" made for TL, S
Added by Jason on 30 January 2008.
however.
Every 2 digit type appliance aside from prototypes were petrol engined this is fact
every tripple letter series were diesel this avoided the suffixing of 2 digit machines
Numbering was to do with the prototyping of that vehicle and a colegue of mine has the works demonstrator f24 which was the benchmark for all f24s this had slam lockers and unless requested otherwise all f24s were to the same pattern be it a P, E whatever
the f30 range was the first to use the pre formed fiberglass cab design this changed its form during the years in detail changes this also helps denote nomencleture
wheelbase is only a factor in fixed length vehicles from 1950 onwards as these were made as chassis cabs ie TL, S and HP, s
the exception to this rule was the f7, 14, 17, 21 THESE WERE IN 13'6" 16'3" made for TL, S
Added by Jason on 30 January 2008.
Jason, but don't forget the "one-off" F23 was diesel ! As regards the slam lockers, yes they were standard, but the body fittings had nothing at all to do with the numbering - that referred to the chassis only.
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
Or to be even more precise, the chassis, engine, gearbox combination - all variants could alter the F designation.
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
look at a dennis f45 and 46 samse chassis and engine same running gear tell me the difference?
the f23 is hardly worth mensioning as its the only one besides that chassis was not unique it was borrowed
Added by Jason on 31 January 2008.
the f23 is hardly worth mensioning as its the only one besides that chassis was not unique it was borrowed
Added by Jason on 31 January 2008.
Hi Jason,
Not quite sure what you mean about the F23 being a "borrowed" chassis. It certainly was unique in that no other fire appliance had a chassis with that designation, and if it hadn't been built as a fire appliance it wouldn't have had an F designation.
So far as the F45 and F46 are concerned, the main difference is very simple. The F45 is 7'6" wide, the F46 being 6" narrower at 7'
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
Not quite sure what you mean about the F23 being a "borrowed" chassis. It certainly was unique in that no other fire appliance had a chassis with that designation, and if it hadn't been built as a fire appliance it wouldn't have had an F designation.
So far as the F45 and F46 are concerned, the main difference is very simple. The F45 is 7'6" wide, the F46 being 6" narrower at 7'
Added by Ian Moore on 31 January 2008.
i stand corrected thanks Ian
it seems that Dennis loved to make the situation difficult
the f23 was
Added by Jason on 01 February 2008.
it seems that Dennis loved to make the situation difficult
the f23 was
Added by Jason on 01 February 2008.
Hi Jason,
Yes, it wasn't the simplest of numbering systems ! I'm just waiting for somebody to open a degree course on the way they allocated the numbers - I might even enrol !!!
One that was planned (but never came to fruition) was the F9 - this was to have been a LHD version of the F8.
What was it you were going to say about the F23 ?
Added by Ian Moore on 01 February 2008.
Yes, it wasn't the simplest of numbering systems ! I'm just waiting for somebody to open a degree course on the way they allocated the numbers - I might even enrol !!!
One that was planned (but never came to fruition) was the F9 - this was to have been a LHD version of the F8.
What was it you were going to say about the F23 ?
Added by Ian Moore on 01 February 2008.
oh yeah i recon the f23 should have been built in numbers it looks a handy bit of kit
it does not exist now does it?
Added by Jason on 01 February 2008.
it does not exist now does it?
Added by Jason on 01 February 2008.
Hi Jason,
No, London's F23 is no longer with us ! It came to grief when the chassis broke its back after hitting an RSJ with the crane.
Added by Ian Moore on 01 February 2008.
No, London's F23 is no longer with us ! It came to grief when the chassis broke its back after hitting an RSJ with the crane.
Added by Ian Moore on 01 February 2008.
And there was me thinking that I was the only one missing some simple formula. The above has been really fascinating.
Are there photo´s of the F23 and the demonstrator F24? I´m very intrigued.
Added by John D on 08 February 2008.
Are there photo´s of the F23 and the demonstrator F24? I´m very intrigued.
Added by John D on 08 February 2008.
Message to John; the F44, 45, and 46, all had the curvy and I think most attractive cab design. That was what they all shared in common. They all have the B81 Rolls. Certainly the ones we had at Ilkley in the late seventies and eighties that I drove, had crash boxes as well. I have an ex Cheshire F45 which is the same design except for solid locker doors instead of rollers. Only recently have the diesel appliances been able to surpass these historical machines in terms of power and speed
Added by Garcia J Hanson on 23 February 2008.
Added by Garcia J Hanson on 23 February 2008.
I have just finished reading David wilsons books about the life of a london Fireman "To ride a red Engine" great read and free to download. in his books David mentions riding a Dennis F11.has anyone got a picture please??
Added by Martin Plowman on 07 May 2008.
Added by Martin Plowman on 07 May 2008.
Hi Martin. Where to download the book about the Life of the LFB Firefighter?
Added by Bomba Boy on 07 May 2008.
Added by Bomba Boy on 07 May 2008.
Martin:
It's obviously a typo of Dave's, there was no Dennis F11. In what context does he refer to it ? - I ask as there was an F101 and an F111, both of which were peculiar to London.
Added by Ian Moore on 08 May 2008.
It's obviously a typo of Dave's, there was no Dennis F11. In what context does he refer to it ? - I ask as there was an F101 and an F111, both of which were peculiar to London.
Added by Ian Moore on 08 May 2008.
Bomba boy, As forum rules don't allow the posting of websites I have sent you an Email. cheers
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
Hi Ian, thanks for your interest, will peruse Daves books again (no hardship).
Icon, or whatever you call it, on download depicts a F8 Style Dennis, just love them, last of the real "English Fire Engines"my favourite is still the Dennis F2 Rolls !
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
Icon, or whatever you call it, on download depicts a F8 Style Dennis, just love them, last of the real "English Fire Engines"my favourite is still the Dennis F2 Rolls !
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
Hi Ian, just re read part of David wilsons book "to ride a red engine" chapter 5
titled A8 BROMPTON FIRE STATION 1963... he states"immediate post war Dennis F11 petrol engine with crash box"... that give anyone some clues???
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
titled A8 BROMPTON FIRE STATION 1963... he states"immediate post war Dennis F11 petrol engine with crash box"... that give anyone some clues???
Added by Martin Plowman on 08 May 2008.
Hi Martin,
The first post-war Dennis machines that Nrompton had were NGX 824 (1953) and OLB 724 (1954) - both of which were Dennis F12 jobs. This would definitely seem to substantiate my belief that the mention of the (non-existent) F11 is a typo. The very first post-war Dennis machines were a pair of F7 jobs (KLC 321/322) which went to Lambeth and Westminster respectively. Is it the F12 that you mean when you speak of it as being your favourite Dennis, the F2 was a normal control (as opposed to forward control) model.
Added by Ian Moore on 08 May 2008.
The first post-war Dennis machines that Nrompton had were NGX 824 (1953) and OLB 724 (1954) - both of which were Dennis F12 jobs. This would definitely seem to substantiate my belief that the mention of the (non-existent) F11 is a typo. The very first post-war Dennis machines were a pair of F7 jobs (KLC 321/322) which went to Lambeth and Westminster respectively. Is it the F12 that you mean when you speak of it as being your favourite Dennis, the F2 was a normal control (as opposed to forward control) model.
Added by Ian Moore on 08 May 2008.
Hi Ian, F7, f8, f12, that's the look I like! joined the NSW fire brigade in the 60s, We had F2s at Headquarters with Cab and bodies like the the New world light 4 (or FI!) but Bigger !some had flush headlights(like the F2 in my album)
another had "exposed" headlights like the F1 in my album. to the best of my knowledge the NSW Fire Brigade Never had Forward Control Dennis, s' until they Purchased "D" series, F44s, 45s, and 49s, in the late 60s early 70s will post Pictures in near future
Added by Martin Plowman on 09 May 2008.
another had "exposed" headlights like the F1 in my album. to the best of my knowledge the NSW Fire Brigade Never had Forward Control Dennis, s' until they Purchased "D" series, F44s, 45s, and 49s, in the late 60s early 70s will post Pictures in near future
Added by Martin Plowman on 09 May 2008.
Hi All, I've seen the photo before, but only just read the comments. To throw a small spanner into the works regarding designations (F12, F24, etc.) the correct designation of this appliance is an F46A. What the 'A' signifies is beyond me! However, I can confirm that they were fast.....fast enough to blow the pipes from the back of the two-tones on the A1! I believe DWT 472H is ex-Normanton, a retained station between Castleford and Wakefield. I have a photo somewhere, but can't find it at the moment. In general, they were great to drive, but a pig to stop. However, some were fitted with drums all round, and stopped fine. It was the disc-braked ones that didn't. i passed my test on PE F12 KWY 347 at Castleford, which ended its life as a static training aid at HQ. Castleford's F46A replaced it in 1970. Anyone know what became of it?
Added by John Stead on 24 June 2008.
Added by John Stead on 24 June 2008.
Added by Ian Moore on 25 January 2008.