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1957 karrier..GYJ 40
Fire Engine Photos
No: 37409   Contributor:   Year: 2014   Manufacturer: Karrier   Country: United Kingdom
1957 karrier..GYJ 40

Picture added on 11 June 2014 at 10:45
add commentComments:
GYJ 40 was one of a pair of Karrier Gamecock 72A / Carmichael water tenders (with GYJ 41) supplied to the Angus Area Fire Brigade in 1957. This make was popular with Angus that had ten fire stations with its headquarters at Dundee.

Graeme Kirkwood's Scottish website shows that it was new to Monifieth (since replaced by Balmossie) and it remained there when Angus amalgamated with the Perth and Kinross Fire Brigade to become the Tayside Fire Brigade on May 16th 1975.

It is still shown at Monifieth on a Fire Brigade Society fleet list of 1982 but was a reserve at Perth by 1984.

I have no record of its life after disposal in the mid 1980s but I am sure someone will be able to tell us 'chapter and verse' of its later history. Did it, like so many of its contemporaries, find a second career with a Scottish distillery fire brigade?

Finally why on earth is the manufacturer shown above as "Alvis" and not "Karrier" (or possibly Rootes). As far as I know, Alvis had nothing whatsoever to do with Karrier unless, of course, someone knows differently!

Added by Simon Rowley on 14 June 2014.
just as I remember it in service! ex tayside former angus area and just braw!

Added by Alan on 15 June 2014.
Chuffed with your comment..It will have the Angus area fire brigade livery..ps just done a 220 mile round trip ..never missed a beat...A big smile on my face watching the petrol gauge go down.

Added by John marsh on 16 June 2014.
After service it was sold to a private school {Rannoch] were it served as a training tool for the older kids...and were trained by Tayside fire brigade..so the story goes..when the school closed it was put up for sale.. Yes you are right Simon; Why its titled Alvis no idea.SITES OWN INPUT AND NEVER NOTICED..Karrier Gamecock.. carmichale body...

Added by John marsh on 17 June 2014.
Error on my part. Yes of course the manufacturer is KARRIER dont know why Alvis appeared....

Added by John marsh on 19 June 2014.
in 1982 monifieth had a dodge appliance and was due for closure , it was a one pump retained station , it was closed along with broughty ferry a two pump wholetime/retained station and a new station balmossie was opened halfway between each , two pump plus pod system wholetime/retained , in 1982 the karrier was probably at a volounter station , all wholetime or retained had by that time dodge 500 or commando chassied appliances , I know I joined that year, i remember this appliance at a farm fire when it was a volounteer spare at glenshee , i was at the shout from another station and had the honour of driving this appliance to the nearest hotel to get a tray of bacon rolls! compared to the commando it was certainly a different experiance , they were originally purchased for the narrow back streets of dundee at the time when they had a lot of jute mills and fores were prevelant , in a later life they were found to be perfect for volounteer stations due to their size and ability to carry water and hose up narrow farm tracks , in fact a modern version is what is being cried out for to this day!! great little appliance , very reliable and with the humber engine quite nippy

Added by Alan on 20 June 2014.
Rannoch school had its own fire brigade due to its remotness, it was staffed by the teachers and the eldest boys , it was disbanded before the school closed due to health and safety concerns , the teachers were indeed trained by tayside fire brigade and the appliance was looked after by the workshop at dundee, I met some at a hill fire and they were keen as mustard , they were mobilised by control at dundee and were used by the brigade on hill fires and the relationship wasnt unique in scotland with gordonstoun in aberdeenshire having a similar arrangement.

Added by Alan on 24 June 2014.
There is an excellent Archie McKinnon photo of this appliance on this site (22590) obviously taken at a rally. It has a blue and white front bumper and a crest on the door that I assume was from its Rannoch School days.

It was like this when it advertised on e-bay in July 2013. The seller was in Dalkeith, Midlothian and the accompanying description said that "a chap from Midlothian purchased it about 15-16 years ago; very original with only 17, 000 miles on the clock".

Rannoch School closed in 2002 and, according to Graeme Kirkwood's site, they had a Karrier Gamecock / Carmichael WrT PYJ 206 and also, possibly, a Dodge G1313 / Fulton & Wylie WrT (no number shown).

The site also says "The machine was sold, as one of the school's assets, to a caravan park".

It doesn't seem to have been allocated to a volunteer fire station although, according to Graeme Kirkwood, the volunteers at Kinloch Rannoch, six miles away, had a refurbished Karrier Gamecock WrT FYJ 416 in 1976.

Alan's info is very interesting (I found the old fire station at Monifieth last year but not the old Broughty Ferry fire station that I assume has been demolished).

Finally, Marcel...please replace the manufacturer shown above as 'Alvis' with the correct name of 'Karrier'. Thank-you.

Added by Simon Rowley on 24 June 2014.
Simon , the broughty ferry fire station was in brown street and is now a supermarket , if you google old fire station broughty ferry you will get the details and a photo courtesy of Ken Ried , the karrier above was at rannoch school and was thier second and after tayside sold all thiers off they gave them a dodge commando as it was easier to service , they didnt have it long when they disbanded, i will ask at the workshop to see if anyone remembers the details , ther are a couple of old hands still there


Added by Alan on 25 June 2014.
Alan, thank-you for this information - I have seen Ken's photo of Broughty Ferry on Kevin Hale's fire stations website.

I have been in correspondence with Ken this evening and he advises that GYJ 40 was new to Dundee Central before moving to Monifieth around 1966.

As far as I can tell Angus purchased eight Karrier Gamecock 72A/ Carmichael WrTs. FTS 578 & 579, FYJ 415, 416 & 417 were new in 1957, GYJ 40 & 41 came in 1958 and then there was another in 1963, PYJ 206. Hopefully someone will confirm this.

FBS Tayside fleet lists of 1982 and 1984 show FTS 579 at Glenshee, FYJ 415 a reserve at Perth in 1982 but gone by 1984, FYJ 416 at Kinloch Rannoch, GYJ 40 at Monifieth in 1982 and a reserve at Perth in 1984, GYJ 41 at Kirkmichael and PYJ 206 at Comrie (PL in 1982 and WrT in 1984).

For John's info, in case he hasn't seen them already, Ken has some good copyright photos of GYJ 40, one in Tayside livery. I wonder if anybody has a shot of it as an Angus Area Fire Brigade appliance- probably not!

Added by Simon Rowley on 25 June 2014.
Hi thanks for the info , I can confirm that both GYJ 40/41 were at a farm fire in late 1984 at middleton of dalrulzion along with 2 pumps from Blairgowrie - VGS 632L/TTS573S , GYJ40 was a spare that was at Glenshee , in fact it was there for several months for unknown reasons but not uncommon on tayside , I remember we lost a new volvo when it went for a service for 9 months to the training division , these little appliances really were ideal for rural brigades , non hgv , carried enough water for first strike and a decent size for narrow roads whilst being reliable and nippy , very thirsty though , if they had a diesel they may have lasted longer , unfortunatly one was sold and cut in half and used as a bar in a theme pub , i dont know which one bu a sorry end , none had more than 20.000 miles on them !

Added by Alan on 26 June 2014.
Interesting reading. GYJ40 had just over 17000 on the clock when I bought it in august 2013..And yes its thirsty returning just short of 10 to the gallon on a run...Maybe you can help it has ZS49 painted in the cab; Im thinking radio call sign..????

Added by John marsh on 28 June 2014.
May bring back some memories... A list of insured drivers for GYJ40 in june 1994 to a gala in East Linton..
MR Alan K
Mr James B
Mr John W

The letter states;; next outing The deer park in Dubar in aid of the local boys football club... I Tink the owner at the time was a Mr Gavin Lindsy The log book states acquired in 1989...Ta...John..

Added by John marsh on 30 June 2014.
One of the 1957 FYJ reg Gamecocks is in Dundee Transport Museum. GYJ 41 was at Kirkmichael Perthshire Taydide Fire Brigade volunteer station from the early 1970s until 1986 when it was replaced with a Dodge 500. I was one of its drivers at Kirkmichael and it was reasonably nippy but very difficult to start in cold weather....or any weather on reflection. The starting handle was well used!

Added by John Milne on 07 October 2015.
Just to add to this, I have taken the following picture of the above appliance near to Bridlington www.flickr.com/photos/matthewleggott/35201045526/

Added by Matt Leggott on 11 June 2017.
Alan sorry to correct you, but when Balmossie opened in 1982 it had a Foam Salvage Tender(S) before the pod system was introduced.

Added by Grant.melville on 12 September 2017.
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